Questioning my rural relocation strategy...

[mithradates]

Over the last several weeks, I'm beginning to reconsider my long term relocation strategy.  The original plan was to move to agricultural communities far away from the major metro areas.  The thought was to adopt a low-energy, agricultural way of life.  I am now beginning to feel that this strategy is sub-optimal for a plethora of reasons:

1.  Fuel and supply shortages seems to hit areas farthest from the major distribution/consumption centers first.  Our national logistics infrastructure is largely designed to serve the major metro areas and the surrounding suburbs/country side(Think fuel shortages in Iowa or Minnesota or Burma).

2.  It is clearly the case that valuable resources can be and has been directed via mandate from hinterland regions towards the coastal communities.  And this is regardless of whether maximal economic efficiency has been achieved or not.  For example, wind power from upstate NY being directed to NYC.  Or corn derived ethanol being supplied largely to East and West Coast areas.

3.  Money seems to be flowing towards major centers that can be maintained in terms of infrastructure.  So does specialized labor and services workers.


I'm of the opinion that large portions of hinterland areas could effectively lose a functioning infrastructure in terms of electricity, fuel, products and services(within a generation or 2).  This would put a person into a very unenviable position.  Having no restaurants to go to is easily tolerable.  But having a lack of modern medical technology or electricity is going to be difficult.  Child and mother mortality would go through the roof.  I think it's worth mentioning that a 10% child(and mother) mortality during delivery was considered quite normal 100 years ago.  Even minor illnesses could kill people without modern medicines and surgery.  Then there's hunger.  Difficulties of transport and communications could cause localized famine and malnutrition like what is happening in India right now.  There's enough food, but the transport infrastructure is too decrepit to deliver to food to everyone.

I'm considering revising my strategy to buy a smaller piece of land much closer to the city.  This will allow for the production and delivery of food to a huge market nearby.  Additionally, being closer to a metro area ensure coverage of necessary utilities and services.  What do you guys think?


   

[JurisDoctorOfDoom]

This is a major paradox a lot of us run into. During the summer I visited a place that is:

A) arguably suitable to post-collapse living as there is great weather, lots of agriculture production per capita, great soil, free from nuclear targets, etc.

B) an economic backwater. Anybody with any bit of an enterprising spirit generally leaves the place. The population that is left is has a particularly high proportion of retired folks and human trash.

This seems to describe a lot of places people are considering for post-collapse living. I don't really have a solution to it unfortunately.

[Michelle]

Mith PM me if you like about this issue . . .

My thoughts: living neatr too many folks or too big
a city will cause too many problems. Look at Atlanta,
the Gov prayed for and got some rain.

I suggest a smaller city. Nicole often mentioned having
your electric come from hydro sources, anther thought.

[Flagg707]

You are definitely onto something here.  One suggestion - smaller city along a major river system.  The Missouri-Ohio-Mississippi river valleys will probalby emerge as key transport arteries.  Some outstanding farmland is within a 10 mile corridor along each one, along with what's left of the U.S. rail infrastructure in a lot of cases.  If small-scale ag becomes as critical as I think it might, there's a lot of good dirt out there and if you are near river transport, you can sell what surplus you might eventually make and have access to what goods will still be traded in bulk.  Just a thought.  At the moment, you still run into what Matt pointed out - a lot of the small towns have dried up to retirees and less-than-motivated young people, but if you are trying to anticipate such a huge change, putting that area on your study list for relocating might be an option.  You can then be in a situation to help steer people you trust towards your new location.  A solid gang of friends (most of whom can shoot straight) will be just as important as a good piece of land in the coming years, in my opinion. 

Another thought (and you were onto it yourself, above), small coastal cities with decent harbor facilities.

[Shaej]

Another factor to consider: how far away is the nearest oil refinery? Mine's about 50 miles away, most of the distance is covered by a major interstate highway and active railroad line.

The source and supply of electrical generation is also something worth looking into.

[Jofiga]

I agree with Flagg for the most part.  Being near a city but far enough away is a good idea. If you were able to get some property that is downstream from the city (if there is a river) a canoe could be used as a bugout vehicle.  I dont think many people have thought of it that way, but there would be no traffic. The problem with being downstream would be the water quality.  With all the disease and death that will most likely happen in the city, its going to greatly affect the water quality of the river or stream.  

My relocation plan may have some bugs in it as well.  I was thinking of making sure i had enough fuel stockpilled to be able to make a run into the city for emergencies. For example, if me or somone with me needed emergency medical care we could make a scary attempt at going into the city (in case there were some kind of medical camp setup).   I still havent decided how benificial it is to live close to the city.....  if your gonna stay close just make sure that your far enough away that the zombie hoards cant walk to your place with little effort.

[feelingweird]

My new location is in a Village setting next to a semi-largish city(Toledo, Oh). I am less than a 1/4 mile from what I would describe as the I80/90 or I75 of Railroad Tracks. This thing get 80 to 90 trains a day going in both directions. The village used to be a stop on the railroad back in the day.

Toledo is a major refinery center as well as storage. it's also located as such that I75(North south) and I80/90(East West) pass through it. Toledo in the old days was a trading town as it was centrally located.

The people in my village are very independent and always vote down anyone who tries to integrate us into the greated County(Lucas County). My lot is small, only about 1/3'rd of an Acre, but I'm doing my best to retro fit it.

I came to these conclusion about a year ago, that it was too late in the game for me to try and hash out a Agrerean life. It take years to learn to farm successfully and takes a lot of money.

My new location will allow me to Mooch off the existing grid and infrastructure without having to be right in the middle of it(inner city or in a very high population density).

My spot is by no means GREAT or even good, but it's acceptable for now. I only put about 4 or 5K down of my own money and have phscologically prepared myself to walk away from it if the sitiuation warrants it...

I think you have to stick with what you know at this point.. City dwellers aren't going to fare well in the boondocks in my opinion, there just isn't enough time to make the transition..

Robert

[CMH]

Things we looked at for relocating, in no particular order....

Price
Climate
Population density
Proximity to a "city"
Transportation

So we picked a place that was affordable, with plenty of land, most in woods, relatively mild winters.  A low population, but within 30-35 miles of a city of 50,000, which still uses barges on the river that divides it 

But <sigh> it really is an economic backwater.  So to make a move like that you either need money, or some type of real skills to make it.

[Cornelian]

I moved to a  very small and easily walkable city on an island. It has all the services, plus railway and deep water port with thriving fishing industry. It is surrounded by good agricultural land. It sits on a huge fresh water river. It has a cool temperate climate - we can get by without heating in the winter if we have to (and I had to this past winter) or cooling in summer. Land is cheap. I live in the 'inner' urban area (when I say inner, it is the closest suburb to the centre of the city, but I can see the outer edge of the city from my front porch - inner city or not I am surrounded by rolling wooded hills and farmland and my property is half an acre). The island has extensive forests - about a third of it is untouched wilderness (most homes here are wood heated). For me it is the best of both worlds. Yes, if a crisis hit that put a sudden stop to our way of life, we'd suffer for a while, but I also think we have the building blocks here to get life up and running again within weeks or months at the most. Climate change is predicted to hit us the least of all Australia (but who knows, of course). And best of all, most of the world doesn't know about us. The rest of Australia thinks we are odd and quaint and leaves us alone. We might run out of some things, but we'd get by.

[DeathHand]

1 What makes you think there will be any Dr? , and if there are,were are they getting there supplies ? & what makes you think you can get through the gate?... you may have to revise what LATOC will be like ,or look for a Dr who is PO aware !!!! just my 2c

[CMH]

1 What makes you think there will be any Dr? , and if there are,were are they getting there supplies ? & what makes you think you can get through the gate?... you may have to revise what LATOC will be like ,or look for a Dr who is PO aware !!!! just my 2c

Wow, someone after my own heart.

[doctor zaius]

Mithradates:   I hear ya.

I still think moving to a well-established agricultural area is the way to go. Instead of being close to a large metropolitan area with a population in the millions and the suburbs, try finding an area next to a small town of about 50,000 or so. That way you will have access to some of the amenities and culture of the town but are still able to live/work on a farm.

I don't recommend moving to a tiny rural community, because as Matt mentioned, there is a lot of human trash, severe redneck mentality that will drag you down. You will stick out like a sore thumb and will not fit in. You will suffer from culture shock.

Try to find a progressive, agricultural community with lots of artisans, craftsmen, local industry (furniture making, value-added agriculture, maybe a college or university, tourism) Try to find a community where the people are not all grade 8 drop-outs but have finished their high-school and had some higher education - this is a very, very important factor. I cannot stress this enough. If you are a college or university grad and move to a community where everyone is a high-school drop out, you will hate it!!

[Jofiga]

1 What makes you think there will be any Dr? , and if there are,were are they getting there supplies ? & what makes you think you can get through the gate?... you may have to revise what LATOC will be like ,or look for a Dr who is PO aware !!!! just my 2c

I assume this was directed to me.   I'm not relying on there being a doctor, im just saying that im gonna make sure i have enough energy stored to make a second move depending on what situations arise.  Im planning for the worst so if things arnt as bad as we think then its all good.  I woudlent wanna get caught stranded if somehow civilization pulled through (by no means am i relying on that, but hey, crazy things can happen!) . I suppose this makes a little more sense if you saw where my bug out location is,  nearest town village or any type of civilization is a good 6 hour drive away

[suburban_junkscape]

I have the exact same concerns mithradates in my relocation. I want to be far from an urban location to avoid the worst in case things escalate to nuclear conflict but then you're completely isolated from any semblence of civilization. I'm leaning towards going into a smaller town like say, Texarkana, on the Texas/Arkansas border. It has about 150,000 or so people. It'll only be a nuclear target in case we have an all out conflict with Russia. A conflict with Iran, North Korea, or China would probably not effect it as far as a direct blast is concerned. Either way, you can partially compensate with a blast proof fallout shelter.

[ilex opaca]

I'm totally with Dr Zaius.  I think the best bet is rural, near an intelligent small town, with good water.  I moved to such a place (Shenandoah Valley, VA) 12 yrs ago and built a solar house and started planting stuff.  That's just what I'm into. I'd forgotten about P-O from about 1975 - 2005.  Now, as I get scared-er, I wish I was maybe in the upper midwest or at least a county or to further west and into the National Forest, but I feel like it's too late, I'm too entrenched here (and have a lot of good things going for me here), and my kids are big enough to not go with me.  And to me there's no point in surviving in  Wisconsin, etc  if my kids croak in VA.  I think it would be better to be further from big population centers, but location is all a gamble anyway.
 So, I plant and plant and learn and learn.   I think scattering edibles-especially natives, non-conventional foods- around will help strangers not notice them.  My root-bunker and weapons and water system are on track for  winter projects.  My kids are eager to get guns for christmas!  Only one of them would help me butcher the deer my neighbor got me this week, though.  To be fair, the3rd one was at school.. 
 Reading up on permaculture and John Jeavons books will help people get the most out of their yards.  Find or plant native foods on nearby vacant land...   I'm working hard to support local foods and farming in my area.   There's a wave of concern about local food and "food security" in the non P-O aware public.  Help it along.  A strong local foodshed is good for us all.
Just some thoughts..