My Observations of Peak Oil people ::)

[heretic]

If they had combined agrarian skills with simple survival skills like trapping, hunting, and foraging high calorie foods such as acorns, black walnuts, and what I'll call caretaking they'd probably fare much better (though if they remain sedentary they will still need some form of defense such as weapons, stealth, or distance from others). Caretaking can be defined as altering a wild area to be more fruitful in a few wild species useful to you such as when natives of the west burned conifer forests to plant oaks or simply clearing ponds of bulrush and other sedges and replacing them with cattails. Caretaking lies somewhere between agriculture and foraging and it is sorely underresearched.

your right scott having a well rounded skillset will help.  I've always thought that planting useful plants in surrounding forrests, where available would be a good idea.  Especially if you can just plant and leave until you need.  Im looking at a home w/12 acres that backs up to a LARGE area of state owned forrest. It may be useful for me to have the skills to "bug out" but i know that in the long term i would not fare well trying to make it out there.  But trapping hunting and forraging would certainly if nothing else add variety to my diet.

[Loki]

Nice breakdown Nicole. I'm probably somewhere between "inactive preparer" (though I have actually seen most of the plants in my books ) and "urban gardener," with a touch of "ammo stockpiler." If I had the financial resources, I'd have a full-blown urban homestead (or even better, a rural homestead). But I don't have the financial resources, so I'm stuck with container gardening and reading about PV systems and passive solar (for now).

Additionally, they are extending their knowledge base into other areas and have achieved a journeyman level in at least one other non-agricultural, post-peak demand skill.

I'm curious what you and other posters consider to be useful non-agricultural "post-peak skills"? I'm thinking right now I'd like to focus on building my skills in gardening and herbalism, but I'd be open to hearing about other skills that might be more useful/easily acquired. I also dabble in other areas (martial arts, wild plant foraging, marksmanship and very basic gunsmithing), but I'd like to build, as you say, "journeyman level" skills in gardening and herbalism. There are only so many hours in the day, and I still have to make a living. Right now the only skills I have that are at the journeyman level are historical research/writing/teaching and copy editing, neither of which I consider particularly useful. I also have "apprentice level" skills in GIS, another useless bit of knowledge.

ETA: Solarsurvivalist, thanks for the link to Dancing Hawk. Haven't heard of them before. They're in my area---have you taken any of their workshops and are there any you'd recommend?

[Nicole]

I think we all have to find our balance, Loki.  Not everyone has the financial (or other) resources to build themselves a full-fledged Peak Shelter, and even those that do had better keep in mind that money doesn't buy everything you need; you have to hump and sweat to prepare, too.

I think teaching is a good post-peak skill, especially the basics for young children. 

Self defense is good, as are the old trade skills.  If you can make something useful from items you have locally in abundance, that's a good skill.  If you can repair things people will need, that's another good skill.  Skill with herbal and traditional healing methods, as well as the ability to nurse someone through a case of the flu will probably be in demand.  The ability to train horses or dogs as working animals could be very important.  There are more examples, but what works in one area may not work in another.

After all, I'm trying to set up my rural Peak Shelter, but if a tornado comes along and rips it up, I had better have something I can do that make other people more interested in keeping me alive than that would be otherwise!  The rural thing is just Plan A.  I vote for having PLans B & C... and maybe D through A as well!

[galacticsurfer]

I think we have to take stock of ourselves first according to specific criteria before we classify ourselves subjectively as being this or that type of person in case of  various possible disaster scenarios.

First of all weigh the negatives we  could eliminate and then assess the positives we could add afterwards.

Example: you drink, smoke, eat only junk or fast food, drive a pick up with low mpg, live in an exurb in sun belt, are heavily in debt and in your spare time watch  sitcoms or ESPN or surf porno sites. Ok so you change to become an eco freak in perfect health living somewhere where you can easily bike to work and maybe even do some gardening or learn some other survival skills and make lots of  similar friends for community and insulate your current house, etc. and start to do some sort of martial arts type self defense and meditation.

We could set up a fairly objective test of survivability in case of various negative scenarios.

Example. When you live in a nonwalkable area and are way overweight and rely on the car. This is pretty obviously disadvantageous when fuel costs rise. First lose weight so you can walk or bike with some reliability maybe 30 minutes to one hour per day and move to a walkable area with access to food and water supplies and stores in a small or big town. Fuel is expensive to heat and cook with so having a residence which is larger than really necessary and poorly insualted or too hard to cool down requires too much energy. This is similar to being overweight or having a big inefficient car in the exurbs. Small waistline, small house/apartment, short commute.

After building up health and reducing waistline to where you are like any normal guy would  have been 30-40 years ago before big cars and exurbs with McMansion and overindebtedness and obesity became the  norm then you can consider further reaching steps if deemed necessary. Survivalism/gardening is part of this as well as such skills like  herbalism or self defense/martial arts.

Basic check list

1)Health- BMI-Body mass index, strength, endurance
2) diet- lots of opinions on healthy foods but I think most people generally know what is bad( I could be wrong)
2)psychological health-how nervous are you, how worried, stressed? Very tied in to physical health and diet.
3) Social and family-alone in a crowd, single and surfing the web? Most Americans have only one or two friends in whom they can confide including their spouse according to recent studies.
4) job and finances-Pink slip around the corner, credit card gets you to next month, no raise in last ten years?
5)Physical environment-Where do you live in terms of energy and maintence, monthly costs, ability to get around independently(bike, car public transport), socialize with  others?

Basically if you cannot get back to a low energy, high  fitness, low debt regimen, i.e. what would have been considered normal 30-40 years ago, then all this survivalist  talk is for the birds and just gravy and putting the cart before the  horse. However if you have gotten so far then you can take some courses in gardening, karate, herbal medicine, chiropractic, hunting, etc. these skill sets can be picked up and will be useful in a British style WWII scenario with war time gardens, etc. However if you are heavily in debt and obese in the exurbs with a hummer, then even in the recession of 2007 "ain't nothin gonna save yo' ass mutha fucka" to be polite. Get back to basics. If we are looking  at the  end of civilization or Hiroshima style end time then planning is ridiculous. In this case just start praying for your soul and find a bible if you are an atheist as this will likely be necessary so you do not  return as a cockroach in the next life.

[Nicole]

Nicely said, GS.

[Uncle Fester]

Hi All. New here and I thought I would introduce myself. I've been aware of the Peak Oil thingy for some time now('00 or '01?). I've been a member on ROE II Yahoo group for a while also. I've read a few books and lots of articles on the subject. I just discovered the LATOC forums though I've been reading the site for a year or more. Been lurking and thought I would join in.

Thought I might add a category to the "PO people" list. A Peak Oiler that has a spouse that limits actions that can be taken by said Peak Oiler to make preparations for the impending decline. Kind of in that boat myself and I've heard of others also.

James

[CreoleGenius]

Fester,

My wife talks the talk, but can't really walk the walk.  I buy silver and
she spends the gold!  Later on we fight about the coming realities.  She
believes that having a new, big house on this same property will solve
all of our logistical problems.  And so, we plan to take out our first debt
in several years to build.  Meanwhile, the juggling to remain soccer/theatre
parents consumes much valuable time and money.

My own ability to fight for rights as a husband and father comes from
studying military history and tactics, including Sun Tzu and Julius Caesar.
This research has helped me to prepare for Peak Oil.

Know and study your enemy (wife and kids)
Send spies into their territory (they will tattle on each other before coming
to actual blows usually)
Develop warmaking infrastructure (survivable homestead and relationships)
Employ deceit (appear weak where really strong, and vice versa)
Cache storeable commodities while they are still available
Plan supply lines for future exigencies

[suburban_junkscape]

Yea, what you last 2 posters said kind of jives with why I'm not taking action. Since far more men than women really believe in Peak Oil or at least the mad max implications of it; if you decide to set out on your own and buy a rural plot of land and all, good luck getting your girl to come along! It's going to get awful lonely.

[oliver.rochford]

I am lucky in as much as that my girlfriend is behind me 100%.

The trick is not to lay it on too thick and to sell some of the other points.

We both want out of the ratrace, regardless of PO, so that helps.

Ollie

[CreoleGenius]

Junkscape;

No Excuses!  Do whatever you have time and money for while the sun is up.
Later on you may be able to attract another girl in need and by doing so,
wisen up the one you have.  First order of survival:

Purchase two acres arable lot in non-incorporated county zone.  Sink a
water well.  Start to develop the utilities.  Later on you can tell her what
you have done.

And Ollie.  I really enjoy your posts!

[oliver.rochford]

if you decide to set out on your own and buy a rural plot of land and all, good luck getting your girl to come along! It's going to get awful lonely.

The point is really this, and I don't want to sound overly harsh with this, but PO aside, you need to be able to agree with your partner about certain lifestyle choices. This includes leaving the corporate fold and living less like the mainstream.

If you are already at odds even before any hard times happen, how can you be sure you can rely on your partner if something bad does occur (this doesn't even have to be PO)?

I have had too many girlfriends that have  had a very different outlook to me, and it never ended well, even in peaceful times of plenty.

Preparing seriously for anything like PO, Climate change etc, is an intensive process which impacts every aspect of your life.

Now, I am not advising anyone to ditch their partner or anything, but you need to assess the situation, the future and your plans for it.

If you _really_ believe in PO and feel like you need to do something, you will kick yourself after TSHTF if you didn't do anything for the sake of staying with someone you really knew you'd never last with.

Personally, now in hindsight and with at least a little maturity, I know that whoever I spend the rest of my life with, no matter in what fashion, I have to be able to rely on and we have to share the same vision for our life.

As I stated before, in my personal case, my girlfriend is happy for us to jack in our jobs, move to another country and rebuild things from scratch. This is because we both share an ideal of how we would like to live. It just happens that many of the jobs we have ahead of us are equally suited to preparing for PO.

In fact, we are moving before the year is out So I am quite busy, mega excited and a little nervous.

But in the end, I am not worried or scared. I love my baba to bits and know that I can rely on her, as she can on me. Add to that family, friends and a plan, and I am confident.

Ollie

[Michelle in Ga]

Fester,

My wife talks the talk, but can't really walk the walk.  I buy silver and
she spends the gold!  Later on we fight about the coming realities.  She
believes that having a new, big house on this same property will solve
all of our logistical problems.  And so, we plan to take out our first debt
in several years to build.  Meanwhile, the juggling to remain soccer/theatre
parents consumes much valuable time and money.

My own ability to fight for rights as a husband and father comes from
studying military history and tactics, including Sun Tzu and Julius Caesar.
This research has helped me to prepare for Peak Oil.

Know and study your enemy (wife and kids)
Send spies into their territory (they will tattle on each other before coming
to actual blows usually)
Develop warmaking infrastructure (survivable homestead and relationships)
Employ deceit (appear weak where really strong, and vice versa)
Cache storeable commodities while they are still available
Plan supply lines for future exigencies

OMG!! Creole you're the freakin' MALE version of me!!! (It works, doesn't it?!)

[oliver.rochford]

In fact, we are moving before the year is out Cheesy So I am quite busy, mega excited and a little nervous.

Man, I am such an e-tard.

Addendum: Before the next year is out

ollie

[Michelle in Ga]

Hubby . . .I need this pasture cleared. (wink,wink )
Hubby . . .I need this area fenced. (Let's go buy you some ammo.)
Hubby . . .I want more sheep next spring. (Don't you need another shotgun?)

[Solarsurvivalist]

Loki:

I'd recommend Dancing Hawk's fall Hunter-Gatherer Intensive. That's the class I took and it was great. You practice skills such as gathering acorns, mussels and seafood, and fishing salmon. The salmon are taken with spears you make with the associated stealth necessary to do this with spears that aren't perfectly legal now yet much more realistic to make with only a knife than standard fishing tackle). Food preparation and storage is also included. If that is not available the Walk of the Mindful Forager is basically the same thing only a different season and less focus on salmon with greater focus on plants.

Kilii, the owner, used to teach a Nomadic-Herder intensive where you spend a month tending goats in the hills of Oregon but has since cancelled the class due to lack of interest and loss of a key instructor. I'm still trying to get enough folks together who are interested so that we can hopefully set this up for the future.

Scott