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Author Topic: Automated, computerized trading systems control our lives like "Machine Stops"  (Read 637 times)
JurisDoctorOfDoom
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« on: January 26, 2010, 09:53:47 PM »

From the Financial Times, article on how all these incredibly fast automated systems are bringing us near a automated financial meltdown:

Quote
An explosion in trading propelled by computers is raising fears that trading platforms could be knocked out by rogue trades triggered by systems running out of control.

Trading in equities and derivatives is being driven increasingly by mathematical algorithms used in computer programs. They allow trading to take place automatically in response to market data and news, deciding when and how much to trade similar to the autopilot function in aircraft.

Analysts estimate that up to 60 per cent of trading in equity markets is driven in this way.

Concerns have been highlighted by news that NYSE Euronext, the transatlantic exchange operator, has fined Credit Suisse proprietary trading arm for the first time for failing to control its trading algorithms. In the Credit Suisse case, its system bombarded the NYSE’s systems with hundreds of thousands of “erroneous messages” in 2007, slowing down trading in 975 shares.

The case was far from isolated, say traders. CME Group, the Chicago-based futures exchange, is investigating a case this month where a trader in “mini” S&P Index futures contracts “inadvertently traded approximately 200,000 contracts as both buyer and seller”.

Last year, the London Stock Exchange suffered a three-hour outage after its trading system collapsed under the strain of a huge volume of orders. Some traders blamed the spike in volumes from algorithmic trading.

Frederic Ponzo, managing partner at GreySpark Partners, a consultancy, said: “It is absolutely possible to bring an exchange to breaking point by having an ‘algo’ entering into a loop so that by sending them at such a rate the exchange can’t cope.”

Source: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/84950872-09e5-11df-8b23-00144feabdc0,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F

Similar article from Technology Review how something as mundane as the length of the computer cable can affect these systems, the shorter the cable the faster the message moves. In other words, big time financial moves are being determined by just a few nanoseconds here or there. The moves these systems are responsible have a much further reaching effect than anything the government does as A) the companies being traded are the ones who decide who is the government and B) the companies being traded have way more money than the government:

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Today’s stock market has become a world of automated transactions executed at lightning speed. This high-frequency trading could make the financial system more efficient, but it could also turn small mistakes into catastrophes.

Just five years ago, automated trades made up about 30 percent of the market, and few of those moved as quickly as today’s trades do. Since then, however, automated trading has become much more widespread, and much quicker. Narang acknowledges starting his ultrafast group as a defensive maneuver when he began to notice faster traders eroding the performance of his medium-speed strategy. Now the medium-speed fund is adopting the techniques he developed in the ultrafast fund.

The Tabb Group, a consultancy based in Westborough, MA, estimates that high-frequency automated trading now accounts for 61 percent of the more than 10 billion shares traded daily across the numerous exchanges that make up the U.S. market. Tabb estimates profits from high-frequency trading in the first nine months of last year at $8 billion or more. With the rise of automation, the bulk of U.S. stock trading has moved from the once-crowded floor of Manhattan’s New York Stock Exchange (NYSE) to silent server farms run by exchanges and broker-dealers across the country: the proportion of all trades that the NYSE handles has shrunk from 80 percent in 2005 to 40 percent today. Trading is now essentially a virtual art, and its practitioners put such a premium on speed that NASDAQ has considered issuing equal 100-foot lengths of cable to the brokers who send orders to its exchange servers.

Source: http://www.technologyreview.com/computing/24167/

Article on the other things that are increasingly controlled by automated, ai powered systems, even down to who you mate with in some cases like the systems that companies like Eharmony use to tell you who you're allowed to date:

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n a world teeming with data, we ourselves become the math nerds' most prized specimens. Researchers at Aetna Health Care, Amazon.com (AMZN ), and many other companies are piecing together mathematical models of customers and employees. Some models predict what music we'll buy, others figure out which worker is best equipped for a particular job. For now, these models are crude, the digital equivalent of stick figures. But over the coming decade, each of us will give birth to far more fleshed out simulations of ourselves. We'll be modeled as workers, shoppers, voters, and patients. Some of the simulations will have our names and credit cards attached, perhaps a few genetic details. In others, our identities will be shielded. Many of these models will be eerily accurate and others laughably off mark. But companies and governments will use them all the same to predict how to sell us things, steer us clear of diseases, and ramp up our productivity. And yes, they'll try to use them to keep us from hijacking airplanes or detonating bombs.

This mathematical modeling of humanity promises to be one of the great undertakings of the 21st century. It will grow in scope to include much of the physical world as mathematicians get their hands on new flows of data, from atmospheric sensors to the feeds from millions of security cameras. It's a parallel world that's taking shape, a laboratory for innovation and discovery composed of numbers, vectors, and algorithms. "We turn the world of content into math, and we turn you into math," says Howard Kaushansky, CEO of Boulder (Colo.)-based Umbria Inc., a company that uses math to analyze marketing trends online.

The Dark Side

This industrial metamorphosis also has a dark side. The power of mathematicians to make sense of personal data and to model the behavior of individuals will inevitably continue to erode privacy. Merchants will be in a position to track many of our most intimate purchases, and employers will be able to rank us not only by productivity, but by wasted minutes. What's more, the rise of math can contribute to a sense that individuals are powerless, a foreboding that mathematics, from our credit rating to our genomic map, spells out our destiny.

Source: http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_04/b3968001.htm

For those of you who have forgotten about The Machine Stops, make sure to check it out:

http://www.doomers.us/forum2/index.php/topic,17465.msg224305.html#msg224305
« Last Edit: January 26, 2010, 10:01:57 PM by JurisDoctorOfDoom » Logged

Maya
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« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2010, 10:15:17 PM »

Perfect way for TPTB to create a crash and blame rogue trades/traders Smiley
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ninakat
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« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2010, 10:58:48 PM »

Somehow, I missed "The Machine Stops" -- thanks Matt! Direct link to google video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2072180223855159236&q=the+machine+stops&ei=lkc7SNT3N4j6-gH-8M3jAw#
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PeakARoo
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« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2010, 11:41:43 PM »

Wow, this technology is like having an entire ocean trawled at once instead of a fleet of trawlers.

That's gotta be a good thing for everybody throughout the world. It will emancipate the poor nations as well.
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picasso moon
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« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2010, 12:32:19 AM »

Thanks, Matt.
Quote
Article on the other things that are increasingly controlled by automated, ai powered systems, even down to who you mate with in some cases like the systems that companies like Eharmony use to tell you who you're allowed to date:

I signed up for a site like that a year ago, it's amazing whom the company's program thinks i'm compatible with, a daily delivery of 16 throwaways. Worth  a laugh, that's all.
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Madnsassy
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« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2010, 12:47:13 AM »

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systems running out of control

Hal, HAL!!  Calm down now!  We're your friends!

(For those too young, from the film "2001")
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hayduke
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« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2010, 01:22:23 AM »

Row upon row of expensive servers, backed up by state of the art heating, ventilation and air conditioning. Massive banks of batteries supporting the UPS system. Standby diesel generators. High speed fiber optic interconnects. All sucking gigawatts of power off the grid.

Programmed with the latest aggressive trading algorithms to take advantage of the most minute inconsistencies in the "market." At the end of the day nothing tangible or even intangible is produced. No people are even required any longer to perform the trading. Just a cold, dark machine consuming resources.

This gives wall street more time to do coke though.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2010, 01:43:10 AM by hayduke » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2010, 02:11:32 AM »

Wow, this technology is like having an entire ocean trawled at once instead of a fleet of trawlers.

That's gotta be a good thing for everybody throughout the world. It will emancipate the poor nations as well.

excellent use of purple there PeakARoo!
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RDenner(aka FeelingWeird)
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« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2010, 08:22:23 AM »

VERY SERIOUS QUESTION with a serious amount of tin foil attached to it.

We all know about Carnivore(aka Promis or several other names) or the software that data mines financial data all across the country and world in search for terrorists or money laundering. These programs have been existence for a dozen years or possbily longer.

Now they are hooked into all financial data. QUESTION: since it is obvious that so many trades are being executed now by said computer and not irrational humans, wouldn't it stand to reason that someone with the correct access could very easily paint a picture that would show him/her ALL THE STOPS and at what levels they exist? Meaning they would know exactly at what point a trigger to the upside or the downside would occur.

Let's say there are 2 million sell orders on IBM at $45.12 or 3.5 million BUY orders at IBM $47.15(made up numbers BTW).. Couldn't someone easily just build a fortune trading around these numbers? Knowing EXACTLY where a big move would come without any guess work..

Just food for thought...

Robert
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