Permaculture...who understands it?

[Chickengirl]

I've been observing our land for about 2 1/2 years - a good year, and a really really dry year (this year). I'ts given me a much better understanding of how the land and the soil reacts to the different conditions.

I'm only now starting to put together a design that will use about 10 of our 80 acres, and will include an orchard, two dams, terraced main crop beds (we are on a pretty decent slope here), a large poultry run, some smaller cutting beds up around the house, a goat pen for a couple of dairy goats with fodder planting, etc etc.

I have the designer's manual, perm I and II, intro to perm and several others - I have most of the theory down, but am only slowly putting it into practise. And although I will have the whole design done soon, we are starting in Zones 0 and 1, then will gradually move outwards.

And yes, I believe that trees are an integral part of permaculture. They are the "permanent" part, yes? You don't get a wholistic system using only one aspect, be that just trees or just annuals. You need all of them.

The only issue I have with relying on the books is that they aren't as specific as you will need in a lot of situations - you need to combine using the books with accessing people - join a local permie group, or start one if there isn't one nearby. My local group is made up mostly of older people who have been doing it for upwards of 30 odd years - at 29 I'm the youngest, although we do have two other youngish couples who are also having kidlets (which goes down a treat at the meetings - the kids are a hoot ). Being able to pick their brains and get the benefit of their mistakes and sucesses makes a HUGE difference.

I love permaculture - I don't see it as just a gardening method. To me it is about a lifestyle, and a way of relating to our land. But i've only really been studying it for about four years - I don't think you will ever really understand all of it - there is always more to learn, and more to experience.

[Jonathan_Byron]

... I'm sure I've forgotten something...

Kava Kava?

[SouthEastFarmer]

I love permaculture - I don't see it as just a gardening method. To me it is about a lifestyle, and a way of relating to our land. But i've only really been studying it for about four years - I don't think you will ever really understand all of it - there is always more to learn, and more to experience.

agreed.
this is the best part.  it's not an argument of trees vs annuals but the relationship of how the land all works together - soil, water, air, microbes, plants, animals and buildings.

all the books mentioned are good, pick one or two that describe examples that fit your climate and try a few suggested guilds, or experiment with your own.  starting small is always good and give you more chances to watch and learn the patterns.

[rbrgs]

Meh, I grew up in New England and most of my family still lives there.  As for boiling sap into syrup...I grow sugar cane.

It is totally different...I basically can't grow anything but various fruits for seed without heroic effort.  And the weeds never stop growing.....

[permadoom]

I am going to agree with Kathyprepper that "Gaia's Garden: A Guide to Home-Scale Permaculture" is a great place to start.  The book does not only a great job of explaining the different types of natural relationships that permaculture seeks to replicate, but it also breaks down basic practical steps and design features to get you started in the right direction.

For instance, the book recommends a few guilds, like the apple tree guild, that you can use to get started.  It also explains a few other essential concepts like zones, relying on perennials/shrubs/trees, and sheet mulching, which really helps in laying down a framework from which to build up a permaculture site.  Overall I think the book makes the designing process a little less overwhelming by breaking it down into essential steps you can start a really great site with.  It's also well written enough that it engages interest without coming across as a dry or technical read.

[mischief]

Then you have done well.
I am not so luck as to have 1 and 1/4 acres I only have 1/4 and of that at the moment only a small portion is available for gardening and chooks.
  Permaculture is about gradual changes and starting small.
As I said I have only been doing this system for 2 1/2 months so you can expect miracles over nigt.or forests.I have chooks  and I have two whole beds planted out.I have 1 grapefruit tree, 1 tea plant,2 Feijoa trees,1 Satsuma tree, 1 fig tree, 2 Olivetrees,1 nectarine tree,2 Apple trees, 1 mandarin plus a few currents and ground cover type berries.Not bad for 2 -3 months.
  Permaculture is about making use of available resources.
I have access to lawn clippings thanks to my job, shredded tree mulch thanks  to someone who keeps dumping it across the road instead of taking it to the tip and later lots of fallen leaves I can collect locally, making use of resources that would be otherwise wasted.
  Permaculture is about working with nature not against it.
I have sheet mulched the general area so The worms have a habitat and work for me to get the saoil to a point that I can use it and work with my hens by giving them a safe clean sheltered home and food, they fertilize my soil eat bugs and weeds and turn over my mulch so it becomes compost leaving me a bed I can [plant straight into.
 Permaculture may have originated as an agricultural system but has moved on to encompass a wider range of human habitats and situations ie Urban permaculture. The basic principals have not changed nor the basic starting blocks.Which is where I am at at the moment.
 Permaculture is common in Australia and New Zealand.We are also abit more laid back and very unpedantic about how things are supposed to be.
 One thing I know Bill MOllison was concerned about was that Permaculture rather than being empowering could be become about controlling at which point it would become just like any onther problem and at this point I say again that as a moderator you should be positively encouraging members rather than negatively and bluntly telling them that what they are doing is rubbish.Nobody learns anything form that.

[rbrgs]

There's plenty of threads about gardening.  Did you read the title of this one?  Talk about pedantic.....

[Chesyre]

got a cattleprod and a knout.  the serfs will figure out this permaculture shit  right quick or i will eat them 

[rbrgs]

or i will eat them

Permaculture is about making use of available resources.

 

[wiccawench]

 

yeah yeah........ so scary you two...... like really.... you got to do better than that!


LAME!

[Chickengirl]

Permaculture is common in Australia and New Zealand.We are also abit more laid back and very unpedantic about how things are supposed to be.
 One thing I know Bill MOllison was concerned about was that Permaculture rather than being empowering could be become about controlling at which point it would become just like any onther problem and at this point I say again that as a moderator you should be positively encouraging members rather than negatively and bluntly telling them that what they are doing is rubbish.Nobody learns anything form that.

i wouldn't say it is common in Aus/NZ - known, yes, common, nah, not yet.

and seriously, rbrgs has been doing this for a LONG time - he knows his shit (even if he pisses some of us off on occassion   ). If you've only been doing it for 2-3 months, I'd be listening to what he has to say, even if you dont completely agree.

also check out some of Grower's threads, as well as many others here - there are a lot of great ideas and techniques about, and lots of experience too    

[wiccawench]

chickengirl..... you know what. It is so funny this talk of permaculture her at latoc to me.

I came to the usa and got some good land here in the fingerlakes....... which made all my prior knowledge redundant.

Not only did i ONLY KNOW permaculture as a lifestyle and philosophical approach. No one here had even heard of it! arrrrrghhhh'

This is the teacher that won awards for permaculture in schools! LMAO

I have been teaching and incorporating it into the classroom since the early 90s

Well apart from that the people i used to volunteer with as rapid response teams for dolphin/whale strandings were also permaculturalists from my neck of the woods in WA (read nannup really close to Balingup where i was living)....... so its really quite the full circle to be reading this thread...... LOL!

So just to let you know...... here all i do is observe and get language for the native plants since they are so radically different.

The first step of permaculture in my opinion is to be the shadow on your garden...... in otherwords GET OUTSIDE!

being observative is also useful but also please write stuff down!~ It is SOOOOOOOOOOO important. Get a book and just jot things down........ what you did...... weather...... interesting problems....pests.....etc.

just write it down.

[Chickengirl]

The first step of permaculture in my opinion is to be the shadow on your garden...... in otherwords GET OUTSIDE!

being observative is also useful but also please write stuff down!~ It is SOOOOOOOOOOO important. Get a book and just jot things down........ what you did...... weather...... interesting problems....pests.....etc.

just write it down.

yep, take notes, lots of em, and get your hands dirty! knowing about it doesn't mean squat if you aren't DOING it

[risenshine]

Wow thank you all so much!
 I will start with the Gaia's garden.  This way of gardening or shall I say living, sounds like the perfect fit for me. 
Thanks for everyone's post!

[kiwi]

Wow thank you all so much!
 I will start with the Gaia's garden.  This way of gardening or shall I say living, sounds like the perfect fit for me. 
Thanks for everyone's post!

Gaia's garden is a great start, there is a new second edition out this year which looks great, also look at "gardening by the moon" it really works you can get moon calendars, I get a gardening diary every year and it has a moon calendar in it.  Best thing you can do before you start is look at each area of your garden throughout the day (every season) and watch the sun, shade, look at the soils in each area.  Just like Redreamer said you need to be the shadow on your garden.