BIG Announcement: AS OF January 1st, No Berkey Products can be shipped to CA

[theberkeyguy]

You can view it here: www.directive21.com/california.html

Official Statement:
Suspension of Sales To California
Residents Begining January 1, 2010
California, has adopted AB 1953 / SB 1334 & 1395 / HSC Section 116875. This revised “no lead law” as it’s commonly known, goes into effect January 1, 2010. The law stipulates that any “end-use device intended to convey or dispense water for human consumption through drinking or cooking,” as well as each of their individual components, materials and “pipe, pipe or plumbing fittings, or fixtures,” or flux, must be “lead free” as defined by California law. Under SB 1334, certification MUST be performed by an “independent ANSI-approved third party testing organization.” It appears that even if a product and each component of that product has no metal alloys and if a purification system actually reduces lead, under Section 116875, it must be be certified. An example of this is our sport water purification bottle; each of its components as well as raw materials utilized will have to be certified.

Our research indicates that there are at least two different certification standards available, but there seems to be disagreement as to which standards will be acceptable to the state of California’s review Department of Toxic Substances Control (DTSC), the agency in charge of reviewing products and their certification. There is further confusion regarding testing protocols. While DTSC has issued an outline, it appears that the final protocols have yet to be settled upon. Throughout our ongoing research on this issue, we were unable to get clarification on the above requirements, instead it was suggested that “lawyers review the wording of the law to determine” how “they interpret the scope of the mandatory certification...” in what already appears to be a muddy mess. Unfortunately, many questions being asked simply can’t be answered by the January 1st deadline and as such, “strict compliance with the law” is recommended. In addition, should we desire to change any of our suppliers after certification, it appears that permission must be obtained by the certifying organization and that re-certification is mandatory, all at our own expense. At the end of this letter are just a few of the requirements needed to be certified, under this revised law.

We will continue to monitor the situation and as we get clarification on the issues for which we currently are unable to obtain answers, we will be able to make a further determination as to whether it will be in our best interest to pursue the matter further.

Sincerely:

The Folks at New Millennium Concepts, Ltd.

A SAMPLING OF CERTIFICATION COMPLIANCE REQUIREMENTS
…Applicant agrees to furnish all necessary drawings, test data, laboratory reports and product samples required by the Certification Company (CC). The CC is not responsible for loss or damage to any materials submitted…

…Listee shall promptly furnish to CC, in writing, the street address, hours of operation, anticipated dates when plants will be temporarily closed or shut down, anticipated dates when plants will temporarily cease production and all local or state holidays of each plant where the listed product is being manufactured or to be manufactured by or on behalf of Listee, and each location where the listed product is warehoused or stored by or on behalf of Listee. Listee shall also provide the name and telephone number of a contact person for each such plant or storage location, both at the time of application for evaluation and in the event of any changes in this information. Listee shall provide such information for all plants and storage locations, whether foreign or domestic. If the product is imported or to be imported, Listee shall also provide the name, street address, telephone number and contact person of the importer and the consignee…

…Listee shall maintain the product design, quality and workmanship in accordance with the current applicable standards recognized by CC, or as such standards may be changed, and as incorporated in the samples and documents submitted for evaluation and inspection by the CC. In addition, Listee shall make no substantial change in material, manufacturing process, marking or design of the product without prior written approval of the CC. Listee acknowledges and agrees that (a) new drawings, tests and product samples may be required as a result of any such substantial changes; (b) any substantial change in the original product after acceptance and listing by CC which is not authorized by CC will automatically result in delisting of the product until such written approval is received; and (c) a new application, additional fees and test reports may be required in the event of any such delisting…

…Listee consents to the review of listee’s products by CC or its subcontractor and Listee shall permit CC or its subcontractor to make up to four (4) announced or unannounced continuous compliance inspections of; (a) each of Listee’s domestic and foreign manufacturing or storage facilities; (b) Listee’s records relating to quality control, production, quantity of inventory and shipping of listed products (collectively, “Records”); and (c) Listee’s products themselves during each listing year; provided, however, that in the event CC reasonably believes in good faith that Listee is not in compliance with the terms and conditions of this Listing Agreement, CC may make a reasonable number of additional announced or unannounced inspections of such facilities, records and products as it shall deem necessary or appropriate to protect its rights hereunder and to the Certification Marks. CC maintains the right to make inspections to any domestic or foreign manufacturing or storage facilities, which are owned or operated by Listee..

…At the time of each inspection, the inspector shall have the right of immediate entry to all manufacturing and other areas, the right to require appropriate personnel to accompany the inspector, full access to all records, production and products, the right to take random samples, and the right to any other service the inspector reasonably deems to be necessary or appropriate to the proper completion of the inspection. Such inspections may be made at any time during normal business hours….

…Listee shall pay to CC an inspection fee for any inspection conducted under the provisions of agreement. All costs of inspection, including laboratory fees if outside laboratory testing is required by CC, shall be borne by Listee…

[jock]

Ok stickying this temporarily as it is info that California members should be aware of.

[spacecase0]

california is making a death grip that I am thinking of escaping from.

[rbrgs]

I'm just speechless.

[spacecase0]

I'm just speechless.

that was my other thought.

[Zac]

Some excerpts from some of my posts about Berkey filters:

The Berkey filter is not a reverse osmosis filter.  The Berkey filter only removes the larger particulates and has no effect on dissolved contaminants.  The optional "Black Berkey" is just an activated charcoal filter.   The activated alumina used in their fluoride/arsenic filter cartridge is likely to add aluminum compounds to the output water.

It's funny that a "minute" unquantified amount of aluminum compound (presumably mostly aluminum oxide otherwise known as alumina) is harmless, but a minute amount of fluoride and other substances is a serious health hazard according to Berkey.

Berkey is essentially selling a filter that they do not provide comprehensive specs for and claim that a TDS meter will not quantify its efficacy.  So, that leaves a typical user with no way to test the effectiveness of the Berkey filter.  I certainly would not trust Berkey any more than I would a municipal water company, and probably much less since at least the water company publishes their test data.

Also, how does the Berkey filter distinguish between "healthful" and "unhealthful" minerals/metals/substances?  What it comes down to is the Berkey filter will remove a portion of the substances that are attracted to activated charcoal if the black berkey option is used, and a portion of the substances attracted to alumina if the fluoride/arsenic option is used.  If neither option is used, all it does is remove the larger particulates.

http://www.doomers.us/forum2/index.php/topic,55557.15.html

[AreWeThereYet]

First TV's and now water filters.

Is there anyone left in California with money to spend ?

[spacecase0]

First TV's and now water filters.

Is there anyone left in California with money to spend ?

I have money to spend, but I spend it all on ammo and guns,
I have a reverse osmosis system, that will need replacing some day,
but I can drive across state lines to get it if needed,

california is almost a post apocalyptic area now,
it will be official after this law takes affect...

[urbanfarmer]

Some excerpts from some of my posts about Berkey filters:

The Berkey filter is not a reverse osmosis filter.  The Berkey filter only removes the larger particulates and has no effect on dissolved contaminants.  The optional "Black Berkey" is just an activated charcoal filter.   The activated alumina used in their fluoride/arsenic filter cartridge is likely to add aluminum compounds to the output water.

It's funny that a "minute" unquantified amount of aluminum compound (presumably mostly aluminum oxide otherwise known as alumina) is harmless, but a minute amount of fluoride and other substances is a serious health hazard according to Berkey.

Berkey is essentially selling a filter that they do not provide comprehensive specs for and claim that a TDS meter will not quantify its efficacy.  So, that leaves a typical user with no way to test the effectiveness of the Berkey filter.  I certainly would not trust Berkey any more than I would a municipal water company, and probably much less since at least the water company publishes their test data.

Also, how does the Berkey filter distinguish between "healthful" and "unhealthful" minerals/metals/substances?  What it comes down to is the Berkey filter will remove a portion of the substances that are attracted to activated charcoal if the black berkey option is used, and a portion of the substances attracted to alumina if the fluoride/arsenic option is used.  If neither option is used, all it does is remove the larger particulates.

http://www.doomers.us/forum2/index.php/topic,55557.15.html

Gee, I wish I had read that BEFORE I sunk my money into a Big Berkey and 10 years worth of filters. sigh.

[theberkeyguy]

Some excerpts from some of my posts about Berkey filters:

The Berkey filter is not a reverse osmosis filter.  The Berkey filter only removes the larger particulates and has no effect on dissolved contaminants.  The optional "Black Berkey" is just an activated charcoal filter.   The activated alumina used in their fluoride/arsenic filter cartridge is likely to add aluminum compounds to the output water.

It's funny that a "minute" unquantified amount of aluminum compound (presumably mostly aluminum oxide otherwise known as alumina) is harmless, but a minute amount of fluoride and other substances is a serious health hazard according to Berkey.

Berkey is essentially selling a filter that they do not provide comprehensive specs for and claim that a TDS meter will not quantify its efficacy.  So, that leaves a typical user with no way to test the effectiveness of the Berkey filter.  I certainly would not trust Berkey any more than I would a municipal water company, and probably much less since at least the water company publishes their test data.

Also, how does the Berkey filter distinguish between "healthful" and "unhealthful" minerals/metals/substances?  What it comes down to is the Berkey filter will remove a portion of the substances that are attracted to activated charcoal if the black berkey option is used, and a portion of the substances attracted to alumina if the fluoride/arsenic option is used.  If neither option is used, all it does is remove the larger particulates.

http://www.doomers.us/forum2/index.php/topic,55557.15.html

While i understand every system can be criticized in one way or another, some of your claims need to be fact checked.  Berkey never claims to be a RO System, it is a sold as a gravity emergency filter.  Also your statement about TDS has already been answered,  you can still hang to the assertion you have about TDS, but if you actually look at the data of TDS and what those tests show, you would change your opinion.  Also the black berkey elements are not "optional filters", they are the filters that come standard with the system.  They are not just activated charcoal, a little research on www.berkeylight.com will let u know that it is not just activated charcoal.  Also, the activated alumina claims made are outlined on the berkey website also, and those numbers are independent numbers.  Is a little alumina added, yes it is, but a minute amount.  Things like toothpaste made by crest and colgate have many times the alumina that is added to the berkey's.   A lot of products including deodorant contain much more alumina than berkey water ever would. 

The Berkey's make no such claim that a minute amount of fluoride is hazardous.  I am beginning to see a trend in your posts, generalizations and assumptions that are not true.  I am glad to see other people on this forum have checked out the berkey and are glad to either have a berkey or heard positive things about them.

All in all i recommend doing a little more research before making generalizations about Berkey's.

theberkeyguy

[theberkeyguy]

Some excerpts from some of my posts about Berkey filters:

The Berkey filter is not a reverse osmosis filter.  The Berkey filter only removes the larger particulates and has no effect on dissolved contaminants.  The optional "Black Berkey" is just an activated charcoal filter.   The activated alumina used in their fluoride/arsenic filter cartridge is likely to add aluminum compounds to the output water.

It's funny that a "minute" unquantified amount of aluminum compound (presumably mostly aluminum oxide otherwise known as alumina) is harmless, but a minute amount of fluoride and other substances is a serious health hazard according to Berkey.

Berkey is essentially selling a filter that they do not provide comprehensive specs for and claim that a TDS meter will not quantify its efficacy.  So, that leaves a typical user with no way to test the effectiveness of the Berkey filter.  I certainly would not trust Berkey any more than I would a municipal water company, and probably much less since at least the water company publishes their test data.

Also, how does the Berkey filter distinguish between "healthful" and "unhealthful" minerals/metals/substances?  What it comes down to is the Berkey filter will remove a portion of the substances that are attracted to activated charcoal if the black berkey option is used, and a portion of the substances attracted to alumina if the fluoride/arsenic option is used.  If neither option is used, all it does is remove the larger particulates.

http://www.doomers.us/forum2/index.php/topic,55557.15.html

Gee, I wish I had read that BEFORE I sunk my money into a Big Berkey and 10 years worth of filters. sigh.

urbanfarmer,

From my perspective, you have not done anything wrong, it is the claims that are made by Zac that are full of holes.

theberkeyguy

[TheDignityofStruggle]

Do you work for Berkey? That's kind of...creepy, in a way, that you would be here to jump on this.

[theberkeyguy]

Do you work for Berkey? That's kind of...creepy, in a way, that you would be here to jump on this.

I am an independent dealer, and have been for almost 4 1/2 years. I do not personally work for New Mellenium Concepts, the creators of the berkey products.  Here is how i found this forum, which i am glad to be apart of regardless of some of the comments that have happened on this forum.

About a month ago or so, i saw that someone had posted a link to my site on the forum, so i went onto the forum, and signed up.  I introduced myself, and decided to post here in the Energy and Water Production.  I am glad to help the community better understand berkey's, even if they have strong opinions not favorable of the berkey's.  I do my best not to argue, but i have tried to answer people's statements about the berkey's that are incorrect.

Last Thursday i was told that the Berkey's would not be able to ship to California, and was given permission to disseminate that information.  I give it out not to spam all over this forum, but to let people know of the changes in the correct areas and forum.  Many people have already expressed thanks for letting them know that Berkey's will not be able to be shipped to CA after Jan. 1st.

theberkeyguy

[Dasha]

We have had a Big Berkey for 3 years. We just changed out our first set of filters. What I like about our Berkey is that, other than the taste of the filtered water, it feels good to know that we can produce drinking water from any fresh water. Right now we filter our tap water. Even though our municipal water is known to be of very high quality at this time, I like to remove the chlorine from it for drinking and cooking.

I think that a Berkey is a really great emergency prep for us. If we can get to a nearby river and we can bring home the water, we will have potable water.

We considered a reverse osmosis system, but we were discouraged by the small amount of water that is produced by the process. 

From Wikipedia:

Household reverse osmosis units use a lot of water because they have low back pressure. As a result, they recover only 5 to 15 percent of the water entering the system. The remainder is discharged as waste water. Because waste water carries with it the rejected contaminants, methods to recover this water are not practical for household systems. Waste water is typically connected to the house drains and will add to the load on the household septic system. An RO unit delivering 5 gallons of treated water per day may discharge 40 to 90 gallons of waste water per day to the septic system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_osmosis

[jock]

Reasons I stickied this are,

Useful info for those in Ca who may be considering one of these as a prep

The berkeyguy has given good information, has been upfront about his association with berkey and has always replied politely and courteously to queries and questions from latoc members. Certainly not a spammer imo.