WHERE are the people going???

[TheDignityofStruggle]

A bunch of people living in one house is a great idea.  Thats what I do now.  Me and my girlfriend share the master bedroom of our rental house, and then we have two other roommates who live upstairs in the converted attic.  We each pay $300 a month (which to me is still a lot).  I've been doing this for years.  In Arizona I had a two bedroom apartment and I slept in the family room so three of us could squeeze in.  The whole place was $550 a month between us.  It makes paying rent never much of a worry so long as you don't lose your job.

The only downside to renting is, if you garden like I do, you don't get to take all your work with you.  Of course I could take some plants when I move out, but where ever I end up going, I'll have to start from square one.

[golddust]

It's a damn shame folks can't get past their differences enough (even families) to realize that with the compiled income of a group of 10 people, it would be super easy to afford a McMansion and have enough living space and land and security for everyone living there.

Are we really so selfish that we NEED to have a place only for ourselves...and are unwilling to share with a few close friends/relatives in a situation that would make the playboy mansion affordable? Even if one or two lost their jobs...you'd still be secure if folks can look past the temporary hurdle.

But who am I kidding. People are stupid and selfish, at least for now. How long will it take to realize our strength is in numbers?  

HAHA. Sorry, but you've never lived with my mother have you? You'd be singing a different tune. It's not about being selfish, it's about staying sane. She gets mad over some lint on the floor or if you don't hang the towels back on the rack just right, and she can run her 60" tv and 2000 watt entertainment system all she wants, but dear god if you turn the little lamp by the bed to read at night on she screams at you for wasting electricity. She locks up HER CD's and books so no one else can get to them, but she'll come in your room and get whatever she wants. She's very OCD about, well, LIFE, and prone to crying fits and sudden rages. And then wants YOU to take care of her problems and "fix" her. She's fuckin nuts. The rest of the family lives in trailer parks and last time I was there, there was a 6" wide pathway carved out from the door through the end of the hallway, which branches going to the sofa and bathroom. It was piled to the ceiling with junk otherwise and I am NOT exaggerating. But somehow, 3 generations were piled into that damn double wide. Ancient pizza boxes were now drink coasters and I swear to god I felt something moving underneath that couch cushion. I prayed as hard as I could pray that a rat wouldn't bite me in my sleep. I NEVER went back and never plan to. Suddenly, living 1500 miles away doesn't seem far enough.  

But if you'd like trade, I'm all for it! You're welcome to be as unselfish as you'd like with my family!

[Tinfoil Hattie]

It's a damn shame folks can't get past their differences enough (even families) to realize that with the compiled income of a group of 10 people, it would be super easy to afford a McMansion and have enough living space and land and security for everyone living there.

Are we really so selfish that we NEED to have a place only for ourselves...and are unwilling to share with a few close friends/relatives in a situation that would make the playboy mansion affordable? Even if one or two lost their jobs...you'd still be secure if folks can look past the temporary hurdle.

But who am I kidding. People are stupid and selfish, at least for now. How long will it take to realize our strength is in numbers?  

This is partially due to the constant propaganda directed at the middle and working classes that you have to have you own place or you are A LOSER.  This is only directed at the plebes of course.  If you are a Bush or a Kennedy, it's completely acceptable to live at the "family home" during troubled times in your life, and to have a "private income".  Everyone else is required to "pick himself up by his bootstraps."  Rich people are allowed to have solidarity and help each other; no one else is.  Few people seem to pick up on this double standard, which has always pissed me off.

Of course smart people like many recent immigrants ignore this and share houses with several generations of family members.  This seems to be the only country in the world where this is considered low class and unacceptable.

I was a renter forced by the failure of my small business to move back in with my parents.  I can't help feeling somewhat embarrassed to live with them, even though it was my Mom's idea for us to pool our expenses, and I've built a doomstash for the three of us.  Mostly I'm just grateful to have a place to live at all.

[Timactionfigures]

It's a damn shame folks can't get past their differences enough (even families) to realize that with the compiled income of a group of 10 people, it would be super easy to afford a McMansion and have enough living space and land and security for everyone living there.

Are we really so selfish that we NEED to have a place only for ourselves...and are unwilling to share with a few close friends/relatives in a situation that would make the playboy mansion affordable? Even if one or two lost their jobs...you'd still be secure if folks can look past the temporary hurdle.

But who am I kidding. People are stupid and selfish, at least for now. How long will it take to realize our strength is in numbers?  

HAHA. Sorry, but you've never lived with my mother have you? You'd be singing a different tune. It's not about being selfish, it's about staying sane. She gets mad over some lint on the floor or if you don't hang the towels back on the rack just right, and she can run her 60" tv and 2000 watt entertainment system all she wants, but dear god if you turn the little lamp by the bed to read at night on she screams at you for wasting electricity. She locks up HER CD's and books so no one else can get to them, but she'll come in your room and get whatever she wants. She's very OCD about, well, LIFE, and prone to crying fits and sudden rages. And then wants YOU to take care of her problems and "fix" her. She's fuckin nuts. The rest of the family lives in trailer parks and last time I was there, there was a 6" wide pathway carved out from the door through the end of the hallway, which branches going to the sofa and bathroom. It was piled to the ceiling with junk otherwise and I am NOT exaggerating. But somehow, 3 generations were piled into that damn double wide. Ancient pizza boxes were now drink coasters and I swear to god I felt something moving underneath that couch cushion. I prayed as hard as I could pray that a rat wouldn't bite me in my sleep. I NEVER went back and never plan to. Suddenly, living 1500 miles away doesn't seem far enough.  

But if you'd like trade, I'm all for it! You're welcome to be as unselfish as you'd like with my family!

Oooookay....surely I wasn't suggesting you move in with somebody you hate. She sounds like a major case of that stupid/selfish type person.

That is why I said CLOSE friends and relatives. Hell, the best time of my life was when I lived with my brother and a friend in a house we rented. It so happened we were a band, and we jammed in the basement almost every night. Recorded an album, partied all the time, and even though I dreaded the job I had back then, it paid my portion of the bills and made it all worth it.

We've all moved on from that place into our own seperate lives. I've since had 2 kids and bought my own home....my friend got married and bought a place...and my brother rents a place by himself. Even to this day, we still get together every week or two and have a jam. The MUSIC keeps us together.  

@Tinfoil Hattie........you know...I never thought of that double standard you mention. Excellent observation. I was at a point in my life too, where I had to move back in with my parents......and it was the most humiliating feeling in the world. Now I understand why. Thank you. 

[Capella]

A bunch of people living in one house is a great idea.  Thats what I do now. 

Yup. I am another happy house sharer. I live with 6 other adults in an old factory building. Each of us has one or two rooms to his or her own and we share two kitchens, two bathrooms, a garden with a nice terrace, a garage, a small workshop, laundry facilities etc. Each of us pays between 165 and 250 € depending on the size of our individual rooms. That includes all the cost for telephone, internet, heating, electricity, the daily newspaper, toilet paper and many other household-related things. Very affordable. Plus my housemates are pretty cool. Even though they are not doomers per se, they are pretty open to peak-oil and all kinds of issues of sustainable living. We are just starting a vegetable garden and one of my housemates and I have decided to get chickens as well. Sometimes we cook together, most of the times we don't. I am really glad to have found this place, even though the house is old and has its quirks (like cracks in the walls ... scaringly large cracks, electric wiring which is a bit unreliable, a water heater that does not allow two people to have a shower at the same time unless you are into showering cold etc.) Actually it sometimes feels as if I am already living a mild and friendly version of the post-peak life   

[ellen45]

There may be a "rental glut" but I know at least two families that have lost homes to foreclosure who can't get a rental because their credit is wrecked from the foreclosure.  One family had lived in their former home for 19 years, never missed a payment until the refi they took out to finance their kid's college reset their payment at the same time she lost her job in a layoff.   Seems like they would be "good enough" risks to me, especially as rentals seem to be going begging, but they have been trying for three months to find a landlord who will take them without success.   

I don't get it when an artificial number like a credit score is more important than the fact these people are obviously steady enough to have lived in their own for 19 years? 

[Puchica]

Hey, Golddust, stop talking that way about my (our) mother. 
(are you my brother under an assumed name?  cuz there can't be two women like that!

[justanouveaufarmer]

Oh there's no shortage of mothers like that.  www.amazon.com/Understanding-Borderline-Mother-Unpredictable-Relationship/dp/0765703319/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1258579898&sr=8-1

[Grogoch]

I posted an ad to Craigslist last July looking for a place, and I was up front and said we had bad credit and we broke a lease once but otherwise have 7 years of good rental history. I also mentioned how much money we bring home to show we have the income to handle the rent. Which is 1/5 of what we bring home. I could NOT keep up with the responses. I got so many I had to yank the ad the next morning. I looked at a few places and found this one, as it turned out it was an individual landlord -- they were moving elsewhere in the state for work and needed someone to take over the mortgage payments because they didn't want to sell the place but couldn't afford 2 housing payments every month. I signed a 2 page lease and that was it. No credit check, no rental history check.

Corporate apartments suck anyway.

I lived in an assortment of apartments and rental houses until I was married and bought a home in 2000. Just a couple of weeks ago I was looking into the local rental situation just out of morbid curiosity and was shocked at what I saw.

I was paying about 495 per month for the last apartment I was in, late 1990s. It was a 1050sf 2/1. I also made monthly payments to the electric and the cable companies; water was included in the rent.

Today my old apartment rents for 1100 per month, plus you must pay the management for water using the RUBS billing system (explained here: http://www.aboututilitybilling.com/rubs.html). Residents are also nickle-and-dimed to death with petty penalty fees that are frequently applied arbitrarily (including as retribution for maintenance complaints) and without notice. With a little online research, I learned that these rates are now the norm in my area.

A recent acquaintance who currently lives there says vacancies are high and current management basically rents to anyone who can come up with the cash to cover the discounted move-in costs. Credit and background checks are a thing of the past. Theft, vandalism, and domestic disturbances requiring police intervention are way up. By the way he described his apartment I'm guessing they still have the same 1980s decor and appliances. Yuck!

My mortgage payment for a house that's twice as large as that apartment is 900 a month. Around here, displaced foreclosure victims must be moving in with relatives or leaving the area, because I don't see how they could afford to rent!

[Ray]

blah I bla a bla in bla blub, we blub in a blub blubba blabba.  My bla bla blubba blubba blah blah...blah blah bla blub...so bla, bla blabber bla blub bla blub in.  We blub blabba bla blub, blub blah blub blubba a blub of blub bla...blubba or blubba?, bla, I bla blub 9.  

[TheWarriorMax]

It's a damn shame folks can't get past their differences enough (even families) to realize that with the compiled income of a group of 10 people, it would be super easy to afford a McMansion and have enough living space and land and security for everyone living there.

Are we really so selfish that we NEED to have a place only for ourselves...and are unwilling to share with a few close friends/relatives in a situation that would make the playboy mansion affordable? Even if one or two lost their jobs...you'd still be secure if folks can look past the temporary hurdle.

But who am I kidding. People are stupid and selfish, at least for now. How long will it take to realize our strength is in numbers?  

You obviously never met my sister-in-law.   

Seriously, though, people forget that large extended famlies living under one roof was the NORM in America prior to World War II.  It may become so again, but not until MANY people (ahem, my sister-in-law) undergo a MAJOR attitude adjustment. 

+ 1,000

[golddust]

justanotherdfu, I have that book!!! It's just about worn out, too.

Puchica, you know what, I'll talk about our mom any way I want! Heaven knows she's doing the same about us! I can just hear her now, "insufferable little brats think they're too good to talk to me..." 

Timactionfigures, unfortunately outside of my husband I'm not so sure I'd have that "close" family or friends. A.) living with people and hanging out with people are very different. B.) I have no family, and the husband's family is basically as bad as my own. Just in different ways. I'd have to fear for my personal safety living with his family. I'd have to fear for my mental safety living with my mom, which is the only family of mine I've talked to in 10 years. So I guess we're screwed. But not really, I'm pretty creative and resourceful.

Grogoch, I pay the average for Denver for a 1400sq ft home. When we started renting in 2002, our first place was 600sq ft, $700 in a very shitty neighborhood in Houston. When I say shitty, I mean bodies were found stabbed to death at the end of our block and police helicopters with search lights flying over the neighborhood was the norm. Each place since has gotten slightly bigger (and nicer homes in nicer areas) and we went from 1 bedroom apartments to 2 bedrooms. We're now at $1000 a month, water, trash, sewage and HOA fees included.  Water bill at the last place ran about $70 a month for hard water you couldn't hardly do anything with, so I like this. I like my neighbors, we're friends actually (they're on my Facebook even, lol) and it's a condo complex so most people own. It's a quiet neighborhood next to a mountain. The average cost of a house payment here runs about double what rent does. And I don't NEED to live in a 2800sq foot home, but that's the norm here. I like being in a small place. I don't need a living room the size of my entire condo!! That's just nuts, to me. More to clean, more to heat, more to cool, and more space to fill with useless junk when here in the 2 bedroom joint, the 2nd bedroom is dedicated to doomer storage. I tend to think we're getting a good deal. Even on unemployment benefits (a fraction of what we currently make) we didn't have trouble making ends meet. We just had little to nothing left over for anything outside the basics.

Maybe I got lucky, but even with the knowledge of our bad credit, we had about 20 people offering us a place in our price range. Most were oddly condo's. I guess they couldn't sell and couldn't stay there, so renting them out is the next best thing.

[forager]

If you don't have money, you can't afford to rent.  Rent requires a first and last month, and security deposits.  If you are living on $250 of unemployment per week, how will you come up with $2000 to get into an apartment if you lose your house?  And who will rent to someone without a job?  

They are either moving in with family or friends, living in shelters, or quietly living in their cars, or all of the above.  

Not to mention, you don't need good credit to move into your parents house. It's surprisingly difficult to get a place when your credit is just "OK".

I posted an ad to Craigslist last July looking for a place, and I was up front and said we had bad credit and we broke a lease once but otherwise have 7 years of good rental history. I also mentioned how much money we bring home to show we have the income to handle the rent. Which is 1/5 of what we bring home. I could NOT keep up with the responses. I got so many I had to yank the ad the next morning. I looked at a few places and found this one, as it turned out it was an individual landlord -- they were moving elsewhere in the state for work and needed someone to take over the mortgage payments because they didn't want to sell the place but couldn't afford 2 housing payments every month. I signed a 2 page lease and that was it. No credit check, no rental history check.

Corporate apartments suck anyway.

People are having a hard time renting apartments where I live in SE Michigan. I'm not talking about the high end ones either. Landlords are growing tired of empty units and people tearing the places up. When I moved back to the area last June, I moved into a nice older apartment downtown. It's basically a big house with four units designed that way in the 20's when it was built. The landlord only did a criminal check and was happy to see first and last months rent in hand. He also doesn't worry about people being late as long as they pay. He apparently got tired of bouncing checks. Many comparable units sit empty in the area. My landlord pays the gas bill which is great because I get hot water, cooking and heat from the gas. The water is also free. My electric bill last month was $22. That's my only utility. That's what the competition is up against. For less that $600/mo, I get a nice, convenient 2 bedroom flat. My driving is way down, too. Everything is close.

And corporate apartments do suck. I live in a brick building with mature trees within a neighborhood with sidewalks, not in some marketed vinyl tent that rattles in the open winter wind near strip mall hell...

As far as where people are living? Basements, cars, friends couches.... Saw one in a car last night in an unusual spot for a homeless person.

[RMG]

The housing landscape is changing rapidly. I'm not sure what the current number is but the home ownership rate has to have tumbled in the last two years. The number of households will probably show the biggest decline on record once the 2010 census is complete - thereby skewing household financial stats for years to come.

I have also read that something like 40% + of 20 & 30 somethings are back home with Mom & Dad - is this right???

[nicekitty]

It's a damn shame folks can't get past their differences enough (even families) to realize that with the compiled income of a group of 10 people, it would be super easy to afford a McMansion and have enough living space and land and security for everyone living there.

Are we really so selfish that we NEED to have a place only for ourselves...and are unwilling to share with a few close friends/relatives in a situation that would make the playboy mansion affordable? Even if one or two lost their jobs...you'd still be secure if folks can look past the temporary hurdle.

But who am I kidding. People are stupid and selfish, at least for now. How long will it take to realize our strength is in numbers?  

HAHA. Sorry, but you've never lived with my mother have you? You'd be singing a different tune. It's not about being selfish, it's about staying sane. She gets mad over some lint on the floor or if you don't hang the towels back on the rack just right, and she can run her 60" tv and 2000 watt entertainment system all she wants, but dear god if you turn the little lamp by the bed to read at night on she screams at you for wasting electricity. She locks up HER CD's and books so no one else can get to them, but she'll come in your room and get whatever she wants. She's very OCD about, well, LIFE, and prone to crying fits and sudden rages. And then wants YOU to take care of her problems and "fix" her. She's fuckin nuts. The rest of the family lives in trailer parks and last time I was there, there was a 6" wide pathway carved out from the door through the end of the hallway, which branches going to the sofa and bathroom. It was piled to the ceiling with junk otherwise and I am NOT exaggerating. But somehow, 3 generations were piled into that damn double wide. Ancient pizza boxes were now drink coasters and I swear to god I felt something moving underneath that couch cushion. I prayed as hard as I could pray that a rat wouldn't bite me in my sleep. I NEVER went back and never plan to. Suddenly, living 1500 miles away doesn't seem far enough.  

But if you'd like trade, I'm all for it! You're welcome to be as unselfish as you'd like with my family!

I feel so lucky all of a sudden.  I actually genuinely like most of my immediate family, all of DH's immediate family, and the majority of my extended family.  There are more than a dozen people who I am related to, with whom I would not mind sharing a home.  Including my mother, who I hope to be sharing a yardsite with, shortly...