Not Feeling Good About Job Offer in NYC

[Zac]

Just a note Zac -- not impossible. I know a good number of folks who are doing it. I'm not to that level myself, though.

Umm....you know people who are producing 50K per year worth of agricultural commodities using only their own labor without machinery?

Hahahaha.

I know folks who produce ag commodities without using machinery, and as to what their take is per year, I have no idea.
But when they show up at a land auction to buy another farm, they bring suitcases of cash. So, I guess they do okay.

I would suspect their have other sources of income or are growing illicit crops then.  (Legal) Agricultural products are so cheap in the US that I can't imagine how anyone could grow 50K worth in a year by themselves using only their own labor. 

[MEA]

And I suspect they have funny hair cuts, flat hats, and no buttons,  ja?

[hillwalker]

Just a note Zac -- not impossible. I know a good number of folks who are doing it. I'm not to that level myself, though.

Umm....you know people who are producing 50K per year worth of agricultural commodities using only their own labor without machinery?

Hahahaha.

I know folks who produce ag commodities without using machinery, and as to what their take is per year, I have no idea.
But when they show up at a land auction to buy another farm, they bring suitcases of cash. So, I guess they do okay.

I would suspect their have other sources of income or are growing illicit crops then.  (Legal) Agricultural products are so cheap in the US that I can't imagine how anyone could grow 50K worth in a year by themselves using only their own labor. 

again, I can't speak to the 50K.
These folks don't *need* money, in the sense that others folks need money. They don't have phone bills, no cable, no plazma
tv, no plastic pumpkins. Sure, they go to doctors, and often barter for services. They earn, but don't spend much. Life is spent
getting the chores done, taking the buggy to church on sunday and other holy days (holidays) and hanging around, while the kids run about playing in the church yard.
They are called Amish. They do okay.
Idyllic? Only to the naive. their lives are hard, and they work hard. They have problems, but they don't have our problems. And this thing of measuring worth by fatness of wallet ain't in it.
They are in it for the long haul. Not till they hit some magic number in their 401k where they buy a pace arrow and go to canada<->fl at 4mpg until they drop dead of cheezeburgers.

[Zac]

I've grown apple-pears, pomegranates, grapefruit, various berries, corn, and potatoes in my backyard.  It's pretty hard work to produce relatively little output,  particularly with the potatoes.  I just grow the stuff for fun, not to produce my own food or for income.  I use chemical fertilizers so that's fairly easy to apply, but even harvesting the fruit is pretty hard work.  I'm all sore after just harvesting a few trees worth of fruit.  And trying to deal with bugs in the pears is very difficult without pesticides (maybe impossible without greatly reduced yield). I spray the apple-pears once a year with permethrin/PBO (a relatively innocuous pesticide) around the fruiting season otherwise there is a bug inside each pear.  Anyway, I just to illustrate that farming is very hard work and produces very little income for the work in our current economy.

[hillwalker]

snip
 Anyway, I just to illustrate that farming is very hard work and produces very little income for the work in our current economy.

No argument. very hard, for little apparent reward. But some folks (as you seem to know all too well)
just have to do it anyway!

Good on ya!

[Zac]

I would suspect their have other sources of income or are growing illicit crops then.  (Legal) Agricultural products are so cheap in the US that I can't imagine how anyone could grow 50K worth in a year by themselves using only their own labor. 

again, I can't speak to the 50K.
These folks don't *need* money, in the sense that others folks need money. They don't have phone bills, no cable, no plazma
tv, no plastic pumpkins. Sure, they go to doctors, and often barter for services. They earn, but don't spend much. Life is spent
getting the chores done, taking the buggy to church on sunday and other holy days (holidays) and hanging around, while the kids run about playing in the church yard.
They are called Amish. They do okay.
Idyllic? Only to the naive. their lives are hard, and they work hard. They have problems, but they don't have our problems. And this thing of measuring worth by fatness of wallet ain't in it.
They are in it for the long haul. Not till they hit some magic number in their 401k where they buy a pace arrow and go to canada<->fl at 4mpg until they drop dead of cheezeburgers.

I don't know about the rest of you, I certainly would not choose to live like the Amish since there are many other better alternatives (at least for the foreseeable future).

[notbobdavis]

I worked downtown before, for three years, sitting in a cubicle day after day doing meaningless marketing for the commercial real estate division of one of the big banks on Wall St.  I can't return to that lifestyle.

I think you just answered your own question.     Your instincts seem to be telling you not to take the job.  Yes there will be peer pressure to take the job.  It takes courage not succumb to that.  You know yourself best.  As long as you're not going to default on your mortgage, or you and your family starve, I'd say follow your instincts. 

[Zac]

I worked downtown before, for three years, sitting in a cubicle day after day doing meaningless marketing for the commercial real estate division of one of the big banks on Wall St.  I can't return to that lifestyle.

I think you just answered your own question.     Your instincts seem to be telling you not to take the job.  Yes there will be peer pressure to take the job.  It takes courage not succumb to that.  You know yourself best.  As long as you're not going to default on your mortgage, or you and your family starve, I'd say follow your instincts. 

It's not peer pressure you should be concerned with, but the question of how best to earn your livelihood. 

[hillwalker]

I worked downtown before, for three years, sitting in a cubicle day after day doing meaningless marketing for the commercial real estate division of one of the big banks on Wall St.  I can't return to that lifestyle.

I think you just answered your own question.     Your instincts seem to be telling you not to take the job.  Yes there will be peer pressure to take the job.  It takes courage not succumb to that.  You know yourself best.  As long as you're not going to default on your mortgage, or you and your family starve, I'd say follow your instincts. 

It's not peer pressure you should be concerned with, but the question of how best to earn your livelihood. 

Good point, but I think it's even more basic than that.
It's how best to live.

[Chesyre]

sounds like ripping off the amish for fun and profit could be extremely lucrative as long as the fiat structure holds up , its not like the can dial 911 on your criminal ass self 

[Zac]

I worked downtown before, for three years, sitting in a cubicle day after day doing meaningless marketing for the commercial real estate division of one of the big banks on Wall St.  I can't return to that lifestyle.

I think you just answered your own question.     Your instincts seem to be telling you not to take the job.  Yes there will be peer pressure to take the job.  It takes courage not succumb to that.  You know yourself best.  As long as you're not going to default on your mortgage, or you and your family starve, I'd say follow your instincts. 

It's not peer pressure you should be concerned with, but the question of how best to earn your livelihood. 

Good point, but I think it's even more basic than that.
It's how best to live.

That's quite true.  It probably wouldn't be the best choice to do something you hate even if you were well paid.  (unless it was with the express intent of doing it for a short time to get enough money to transition to something else)

A few other thoughts:

I think how well compensated a particular vocation is depends on supply and demand.  Lower skilled vocations are less well compensated as there are many people who can do those jobs.  Fortunately or unfortunately, farming is one of those lower skilled vocations.  Historically, the least privileged did that work. 

I don't mean to denigrate manual labor at all though.  In fact, I strongly support a living wage for all.  Anyone who is willing to work hard should be able to earn a decent living. 

I sometimes see landscapers working outside in the hot sun in the 100 degree summer weather while I'm working in my air conditioned office on my CAD program earning probably more than 10X their hourly wage and wonder about the equity of it all. 

On the other hand, I once hired a landscape contractor to construct retaining walls using large (~100 pound each) keystone blocks and build a concrete patio and walkways.  He was properly licensed by the state with supposedly 15 years experience.  He and his helpers worked very hard, but they didn't know what they were doing and ended up having to build (and disassemble) the first wall 3 times before it was reasonably straight and level. (they only had to do the second wall twice)  When it became clear that contractor didn't know what he was doing and started pleading for help, I had to go out and help them use levels and string lines in hopes they would get it right eventually.  It was kind of funny because I had never worked on such a project before and was just trying to figure it out on the fly, something I was trying to avoid by hiring a licensed contractor.  But, I didn't have the heart to fire that guy because he was was working so hard and earnestly.  In the end, the 2 retaining walls came out about 90% right (there is bit of sagging in the middle of one of them).  But, I ended up having to take a bunch of migraine pills from spending too much time in the hot sun with them and he got sick probably from overexertion and worry.  So, I ended up hiring someone else to do the concrete and made sure this fellow knew what they were doing. 

[MEA]

Do you really think farming is unskilled work? It has elements that are unskilled, I'll admit, but sill.

[Patchze]

Thanks all, so much, for your insights.  I'm still very conflicted.  I read up last night on where I'd be working, if this guy who offered me the job really does hire me.  It's not so much of a property management company, as it is a simple real estate operation.  His parents started it many years ago.  It's a studio co-op building in midtown Manhattan, and has something like 60 units, most of which are private businesses.  There are just a few residential tenants.  The building has been in his family since the 1940s.  Some of the old tenants were popular artists and writers.  Ray Charles rented there for a time.  Woody Allen had operated out of a unit there for about 30 years.  The Rolling Stones rehearsed there once.  I found the story about the family and the building in a NY Times real estate article from 2000.  The guy who runs the building/business told me he needs a project coordinator.  The building next door is also owned by him, and they still haven't networked the computers between the buildings.  I know nothing about computer networking.  I told him I'd like to learn how, though.  I'm not sure if being a project coordinator means that I'd necessarily have to know how to run a network, or if I'd responsible for finding people who would.  There's also a documentary company in the building operated by another family member, and he said they'd need help every now and then.  He didn't say what kind of help, but, I'm flattered that he thought of me when he decided they needed help.  We'll be meeting in the city next Wednesday to talk about it.  I don't know if he'll still want to hire me or not.  In a way, I hope he does.  But in another, I hope he doesn't.

But my life on Long Island is fairly dull, or rather boring, enslaving, and monotonous.  Thank God for these unemployment benefits.  I don't plan on ever getting married (unless my would-be wife believes PO is real and doesn't want to have kids).  I just don't want to allow my life to become more enslaving and aggravating as it is now.  I live an hour away from where my father lives.  My mom died a couple of years ago, and my dad is overly needy and dependent.  He's just 61.  He was laid off from his finance job last year, too.  This was the time of year when my mom was sick, so he's in mourning and not sure what he's going to do with his life, even though he still consumes like he's still earning what he did before.  He dines out nearly five days a week.  I asked him if he wanted to come to NYC to see Mike Ruppert's Collapse with me, but he didn't want to.  He said there's plenty of oil left.  He also thinks the economy will recover, and that he'll be able to get a job soon. 

I rent a room for $700, in a house owned by a woman who's really nice, and is a friend of mine.  She was just laid off from her job at an interior design store.  I dread having to go back some day and live with my dad.  His head in the sand when it comes to dealing with reality.  (He drinks a lot.)  I like to think that I'll be free one day.  Thank God I'm not in debt, have a fairly low rent, and decent savings thanks to a car accident that almost killed me 17 years ago.  I hope I'm not the delusional one.  I just dread the thought of having to be in this dreadfully lonely, enslaving life of living in the status quo/BAU mentality of Long Island, NY.  Last night, I was at a big wine & spirits store that just opened up 50 yards from where I live.  They were hiring.  $15/hour.  I almost wanted to apply right then and there.  Free commute, plus extra hours that would otherwise be spent commuting.  I fantasize about flying to New Mexico (where I lived for two years not too long ago), buying an old RV, and moving to the mesa north of Taos: 
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq8BaSBuhuQ (External Embedding Disabled)     (that's a movie I did of shots and videos I took when I was there in August.)

Maybe I should just go for it, and take the job if it's still being offered.  Especially if it's just for a year or so.  Then I can reset the unemployment insurance.  I'll have close to four hours of reading time on the train, every day.  And maybe meet some people in the documentary company who operate in the building and make something good. 

[Zac]

Maybe I should just go for it, and take the job if it's still being offered.  Especially if it's just for a year or so.  Then I can reset the unemployment insurance.  I'll have close to four hours of reading time on the train, every day.  And maybe meet some people in the documentary company who operate in the building and make something good. 

Yep, the commute is not so bad if it's on a train where you can read and do other stuff.  If I had to do it, I would get a laptop with a wireless (like verizon's wireless broadband) connection.  It's possible to get an all-you-can-eat wireless internet connection for $15 extra per month if you have a verizon nationwide cell phone plan and a compatible web enabled phone that can be tethered to a laptop. 

[Chesyre]

i'd take the wine store job myself , when it shits the bed in  year or so . get back on the 99 week unemployment plan