Not Feeling Good About Job Offer in NYC

[Patchze]

I could really use some advice here.  I was offered a job the other day from an alumnus, about 8 years older than me (I'm 33) of the college I went to.  I haven't been working since August 2008.  I live on Long Island, where the train station is 70 minutes from Penn Station.  I've been surviving on my unemployment insurance, and trying to invest in savings I have from an insurance settlement due to a car accident I was in 17 years ago.  I took it out of the stock markets in August 2008, right after Mike Ruppert and Roubini issued their warnings.  Anyhow, in the year that I've been free of the rat race hell to NYC from Long Island, I've taken a permaculture course, learned a bit of videography, volunteered, taken a few good trips, and spent a lot of time reading about PO and the ongoing economic collapse.  Now I suddenly have a job offer.  It would be $25/hr, or $48000/year.  It would be a cubicle job at a small property management company.  The hours in my daily commute, door to door, would amount to around 4 hours.  I'm trying to calculate how much I would take home, after commuting expenses, meals, and taxes.  The annual commuting expenses would be $4,356, and the food, if I just spent $10/day, would be $2,600/year.  I don't know how to figure out what the tax rate, all together, would be.  25%?  After deductions and exemptions, I know that federal income tax would be 12.19%.  NY State income tax would be 6.85%.  NYC income tax would be 3.648%.  And FICA tax would be 7.65%  (But those are all rates from last year.  I don't know how different they will be in April 2010.)  Would it be worth my while to take a job that would take 12 hours out of my weekdays?  I want to be preparing for the tougher times ahead, learning practical and barterable skills.  And if I could find a job locally on LI, say being a cashier at Trader Joe's, or work at the local bookstore (one of LI's best independent bookstores), I'd still have more free time than if I took this city job.  In addition, I was told by the guy who offered me the job that the job would only be "for a year, or possibly several years." 

My family and friends are oblivious when it comes to PO and the collapse we're experiencing.  They tell me I must take it, and that it would be dumb if I don't.  My thoughts are that it would be dumb if I did.  I fear it would be a waste of precious time, especially when I can collect unemployment for another 20 weeks, or possibly 40 (which would be when I'd reach 99 weeks.)  With that time, I like to believe that I could learn more skills, find a permaculture community that's forming upstate, or be an intern at a permaculture organization, or learn herbalism and welding, along with some agricultural skills.  The people in my life are all oblivious, and complacent.  I'm reading Charles Hugh Smith's Survival+, and feeling hope by reading it.  His concept of hybrid work as being the kind of work that will help us most as individuals and communities is appealing to me far, far more than doing another 9-to-5 cubicle job in Manhattan.  I worked downtown before, for three years, sitting in a cubicle day after day doing meaningless marketing for the commercial real estate division of one of the big banks on Wall St.  I can't return to that lifestyle.  Charles Hugh Smith urges us to live our lives as an example to those who are still mired in the status quo/business-as-usual mentality of this country.  I can't let the zombies of my life pull me into their complacent world.  It's not going to last.  Am I right?  I don't know.  But the feeling I have is overwhelming.  I can't let myself do this.  Or should I?  If it's only going to last a year (or possibly several), maybe I can hope that after I lose the job after a year+, I can get back on unemployment, and fight for a sustainable way of life then. 

I wonder if I'd really be able to even get a job at the local Trader Joe's/Whole Foods, or bookstore, etc.  Is it worth it to throw away the free hours of my waking life by commuting to Manhattan and sitting in another cubicle all day, when this could be a time to create something lasting, and perhaps live as a better example? 

How long is the complacency and status quo mentality of everyone in my family and my friends (and Long Island, NY) going to really last?  Am I the delusional one?

[Grower]

You've put a lot of good thought into this.

I think I'd crunch the numbers and figure out whether or not taking the job for a limited amount of time would give you enough money to go do more prepping. Are the preps you want to do, maybe a bigger move, that a chunk of change could help you do sooner? If taking the job for a year or so would provide a nice $ return, then you could take the money and go do something meaningful. In its way, it would be a form of prepping itself, which might give the work some meaning.

But if not, if it would only pay enough to cover the expenses of having the job, then no, I can't see the benefit. Work 40 hours + 12 hours of commute just to make enough to get back and forth to work and pay taxes? Nah.

Good luck!

[HungryRaven]

If it is anything like the property management job I have you don't have to actually be at a desk so maybe the guy can compromise and you can be mobile.  You should be there initially for the socialization period but most of the record keeping software can be on the web so you can access it anywhere.  If someone has a maintenance issue they can leave a voicemail or call a cell phone.  I tell all my tenants if the house is flooding leave me a message but don't wait call a plumber for goodness sake.

 If someone is calling about a rental same thing.  My stuff is on the net so most tenants who called already have the data and have seen photos.  So the next step is they call a rental voicemail with a recorded message answering some more questions so crap will basically follow you around day and night it also means you can handle it anywhere and don't need to be onsite anymore. 

[ExRanger]

In cases like this in my life I always follow my gut. The gut feeling never lies, you just have to listen to it. Best to you!

[AreWeThereYet]

In cases like this in my life I always follow my gut. The gut feeling never lies, you just have to listen to it. Best to you!

That is so true.  But the logic of the brain has such great battles with the emotions of the gut.
I know my gut feeling is right so I battle to get my brain to justify it.

[Zac]

I think there is little chance of the US reverting to the living arrangements and economy of the 18th century in the foreseeable future (next few decades) unless a nuclear war occurs.  I think nuclear war involving the US is very unlikely. 

So, I think trying to produce all your own food is impractical and, in my opinion, not the best use of your time.  If you produced solely legal crops in small scale agriculture, it would be nearly impossible to produce an income equivalent of $25/hour.  Whether fortunately or unfortunately, I doubt small scale farming will ever be a well compensated vocation in the US. 

I would take the job and the opportunity to reset your unemployment benefits.  If you do lose that job in a year or 2, you will then have an additional 79 weeks (depending on your state) of unemployment benefits to consider your options.  Of course, a local job that pays about as well after taking into account commuting costs and time would be preferable.  But, I would guess jobs at Trader Joe or the local bookstore pay near minimum wage without no benefits. 

[Grower]

Just a note Zac -- not impossible. I know a good number of folks who are doing it. I'm not to that level myself, though.

[hillwalker]

Well,

It's obvious you've thought about this quite a lot.

Something you might consider:

You've researched and done some learning on permaculture, so you know how to talk the talk.
If you have infact, managed to squirrel some money away as you imply, and have learned to keep you bills to a mimium,
Since you are still quite young (yes 33 is young, although it might not feel like it) and if you are reasonably physically fit,
you might want to pursue some of the internship opportunities that ALWAYS start to become available here in the next
few months as some of the smaller scale CSA farms.
Would mean pulling up stakes, walking away from your unemployment benes, and such things. Might mean going without
health insurance, and all that.
But it would be good work, as in real, honest and satisfactory work. And you could put that learning to practice, and learn
to walk the walk.
In time, you may become established in the productive small farm community. And -in time- that community is going to be a
great deal more important than the commuting/cubicle slave shops. Well, in fact, it already is, but folks just don't know that.

[max_power]

When are you gonna come down
When are you going to land
I should have stayed on the farm
I should have listened to my old man
You know you can't hold me forever
I didn't sign up with you
I'm not a present for your friends to open
This boy's too young to be singing the blues


So goodbye yellow brick road
Where the dogs of society howl
You can't plant me in your penthouse
I'm going back to my plough

Back to the howling old owl in the woods
Hunting the horny back toad
Oh I've finally decided my future lies
Beyond the yellow brick road

What do you think you'll do then
I bet that'll shoot down your plane
It'll take you a couple of vodka and tonics
To set you on your feet again
Maybe you'll get a replacement
There's plenty like me to be found
Mongrels who ain't got a penny
Sniffing for tidbits like you on the ground

[s_j_wolf]

I would take the job and the opportunity to reset your unemployment benefits.  If you do lose that job in a year or 2, you will then have an additional 79 weeks (depending on your state) of unemployment benefits to consider your options. 

That's what I was thinking as well. Try it for a while. Use the commuting hours to read more on what interests you. And you will still have the week-ends and vacations to yourself, won't you?

On the other hand, if you really feel working in a cubicle would gnaw away at you soul...

[Grower]

Many states or regions have agricultural organizations that help coordinate farmers and interns. Usually the internships are not paid. Usually they don't provide board. But some do one or the other or both. Examples include PASA (Pennsylvania), MOGFA (Maine), OEFFA (Ohio) and many more.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/afsic/pubs/agnic/susagorgs.shtml

Those listed above have websites that often have information on internships. A married couple near here participated in an internship (while in college) for a good-sized grower for two years. She specialized in greenhouse production and he did field work, though they both learned lots about everything. Then they saved their pennies and found an old farm they bought at auction, about 100 acres, but only 20 really good for production. He picked up used equipment at auctions and borrowed what he didn't have until he could afford his own. They started with a 40-member CSA (look it up). They also sold at a farmers market near Columbus. They picked up members each year and expanded to more farmers markets (mid-week markets, and they'd each go to one). Last year, she quit her teaching job and they make a living full time on their farm. They're putting more land into production, up to 25 acres now, and adding naturally raised beef cattle, on a small scale. They aren't certified organic, but they do grow organically. They have around 250 members in their CSA, which delivers for 32 weeks @ $620 a season. They're also selling at some city restaurants now. So the CSA + the farmers markets + restaurant and wholesale income covers their expenses, including insurance, retirement savings, etc. They are in their early 30s now.

So people, it can be done. And doing an internship can be a great way to learn the ropes and transition into it.

[Chesyre]

    So the CSA + the farmers markets + restaurant and wholesale income covers their expenses, including insurance, retirement savings, etc. They are in their early 30s now.
       

yes it can be done , all you need is 15 odd years of cheap fossil fuels and an unemployment rate of around 5 % to get yourself going. why if you started right now , by 2025 you will be living the good life on the fahm 

[hillwalker]

Many states or regions have agricultural organizations that help coordinate farmers and interns. Usually the internships are not paid. Usually they don't provide board. But some do one or the other or both. Examples include PASA (Pennsylvania), MOGFA (Maine), OEFFA (Ohio) and many more.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/afsic/pubs/agnic/susagorgs.shtml

Those listed above have websites that often have information on internships. A married couple near here participated in an internship (while in college) for a good-sized grower for two years. She specialized in greenhouse production and he did field work, though they both learned lots about everything. Then they saved their pennies and found an old farm they bought at auction, about 100 acres, but only 20 really good for production. He picked up used equipment at auctions and borrowed what he didn't have until he could afford his own. They started with a 40-member CSA (look it up). They also sold at a farmers market near Columbus. They picked up members each year and expanded to more farmers markets (mid-week markets, and they'd each go to one). Last year, she quit her teaching job and they make a living full time on their farm. They're putting more land into production, up to 25 acres now, and adding naturally raised beef cattle, on a small scale. They aren't certified organic, but they do grow organically. They have around 250 members in their CSA, which delivers for 32 weeks @ $620 a season. They're also selling at some city restaurants now. So the CSA + the farmers markets + restaurant and wholesale income covers their expenses, including insurance, retirement savings, etc. They are in their early 30s now.

So people, it can be done. And doing an internship can be a great way to learn the ropes and transition into it.

BTW, you have to dig for it, but PASA is a fantastic resource. I've been involved w/PASA for a few years now, and it has really turned my head around.

The annual PASA conference ain't cheap to attend, but it's a mind-blower. First year I went, I had to go back to my hotel room and just sit, because I was so blown away with some of the stuff I was learning, just by listening to folks talking in the hallways.

Ihttp://www.pasafarming.org/our-work/farming-for-the-future-conference

[Zac]

Just a note Zac -- not impossible. I know a good number of folks who are doing it. I'm not to that level myself, though.

Umm....you know people who are producing 50K per year worth of agricultural commodities using only their own labor without machinery?

[hillwalker]

Just a note Zac -- not impossible. I know a good number of folks who are doing it. I'm not to that level myself, though.

Umm....you know people who are producing 50K per year worth of agricultural commodities using only their own labor without machinery?

Hahahaha.

I know folks who produce ag commodities without using machinery, and as to what their take is per year, I have no idea.
But when they show up at a land auction to buy another farm, they bring suitcases of cash. So, I guess they do okay.