Feeling alienated on veterans day

[Chesyre]

     Should we have left the British and French to fend for themselves against Hitler in WWII?  Should we have left France to fend for itself in WWI?

Should we have left Asia to fend for itself against the Japanese in WWII?
   

aNo we should have kicked ass and then said good luck guys and moved the legions back to america proper. Then let russia bleed fighting insurgencies in yurope , whilst we enjoyed national health care , national education and 6 week vacations. lesson learned blow shit up and leave , otherwise you end up with ungrateful , expensive economic competitors a few decades later 

[max_power]

There was a soldier a Scottish soldier
who wandered far away and soldiered far away
there was none bolder with good broad shoulder
he fought in many a fray and fought and won
he'd seen the glory and told his story
of battles glorious and deeds victorious
now he's sighing his heart is crying
to leave those green hills of tyrol

because these green hills are not highland hills
or the island hills
they're not my land's hills
and fair as these green foreign hills may be
they are not the hills of home

and now the soldier the scottish soldier
who'd wandered far away and soldiered far away
sees leaves are falling and death is calling
and he will fade away in that far land
so he called his piper his trusty piper
and bade him sound a lay, a pibroch sad to play
upon a hillside but Scottish hillside
not on these green hills of tyrol

because these green hills are not highland hills
or the island hills
they're not my land's hills
and fair as these green foreign hills may be
they are not the hills of home

and now the soldier the scottish soldier
will wander far no more and soldier far no more
and on a hillside a scottish hillside
you'll hear a piper play his soldier home
he'd seen the glory and told his story
of battles glorious and deeds victorious
the bugles cease now he is at peace now
far from these green hills of tyrol

because these green hills are not highland hills
or the island hills
they're not my land's hills
and fair as these green foreign hills may be
they are not the hills of home
because these green hills are not highland hills
or the island hills
they're not my land's hills
and fair as these green foreign hills may be
they are not the hills of home

[kathleen]

That was beautiful 

[max_power]

That was beautiful  :'(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIXrYhAzvWI (External Embedding Disabled)

[Baldwin]

For me, veteran's day is a time to find charities who help wounded soldiers and help them reintegrate into society after service.

And I'll remind some what the diplomatic corps of a state thinks of the military:  Dumb animals used to create a scenario in which the diplomats can exact a certain outcome. 

The best we can do is try and give the guys a chance at a decent life when they come home, should they need the help.

[zigspider]

Should we have left the British and French to fend for themselves against Hitler in WWII?  Should we have left France to fend for itself in WWI?

Should we have left Asia to fend for itself against the Japanese in WWII?

Should we have left US citizens at the mercy of the Barbary pirates?

How about those Bosnians?

Yes, there have been many, many instances where the US went to war for craven reasons.  Wars are fought for evil purposes. 

However, it isn't black and white - it isn't all or nothing.  Wars are also fought for high ideals.  And within "bad" wars are sometimes "good" reasons and "good" outcomes.


And the US is not Switzerland.

And you certainly did paint veterans as terrorists.

As far as I'm aware, the French were defeated in 1939/1940. The British were fighting on by themselves ( granted with help from the lend lease program) with the help of the Russians until 1942 when the US got actively engaged in WW2, due to Pearl harbour. WW1, the US didn't get involved until 1917 if I recall, after the Luisitannia (sp) sinking. So for 3 years certainly, you DID leave France to fend for itself (with the exception of the BEF which lost hundreds of thousands of men)
The US involvementy in both world wars was not voluntary, but rather politically motivated.

Jerry

[Ellie]

I feel like such a tool as everybody is thanking and gushing over veterans and all I can think of is wars (which are all total rackets to benefit the richest and sacrifice people to the gods of evil) would not be possible if nobody showed up for them. Thanks but no thanks for your "service" veterans.

was there really a war fought for freedom in American history? Maybe you could argue for the revolutionary war.
 and none of those veterans are alive and if they were they would probably be prosecuted for terrorism.

There is hardly anybody that i could talk about this with, I just have to keep my mouth shut and humor everybody.

I feel pretty much the same way you do, max.

But I don't think it really does harm to our beliefs to keep our mouths shut for one day. As far as I can tell most of those who observe Veteran's Day in any real sense are those who have someone in the service currently or had a family member killed in service.

I don't care to taint their observences with my beliefs. If we do that, then we're really no better than Fred Phelps and his merry little band of homophobic nutjobs who go around protesting at military funerals. I support their right to free speech, but they don't have to be such asses in the way they exercise it. 

See what I'm saying? Respecting another's grief is never a bad thing.

[Six Gun Jim]

It doesn't bother me if people don't recognize it, I don't think many of us care actually. Once you get in you do it for the guys next to you not for John and Jane public, mom, dad, apple pie or any of that bullshit. You figure out that the whole mess is pretty well fucked from the get go and all you want to do is live and help your friends live and then forget about it. What I can't stomach is the people who condemn the system without dropping out themselves. You can't drive and live in home without giving consent for the US to use it's might to bring the resources home for you to have those things. Sorry, if you don't completely abandon all your activities that rely on the resources brought to you by the spoils of conflict you are a hollow hypocrite. This is not love it or leave it, this is understand the things in your life and how they came to you. As long as someone understands that the men didn't cause the conflicts and they aren't to blame I don't care if you don't recognize anything else about it. You have the right to not want to glorify the actions of war, I can get into that logic. You aren't spitting and cursing, you just aren't cheering, no problem. Just remember you are limited in what you say about even the imperialism of the US government and corporate interests so long as you partake in the proceeds. If you buy the goods, you are an accomplice same as the rifleman and the politician.  -James

[zenobia]

Thanks, James.  You are absolutely right.

[max_power]

If you could fight any people you wanted to who would you fight?

[ReddDogg]

The Bankster CEO's and Congress people of the USA. 

[Six Gun Jim]

If you could fight any people you wanted to who would you fight?

Nobody, ever, for any reason. Realistically, anybody who tried to tell anybody else how, where and why to live their life and enforce it. I want the bullies, cleric's, ideologues, phony prophets, politicians and wealthy exploiters. The liars, cheats, thieves and those without a shred of compassion or basic human decency. My list is no group at all, it is everyone who despises the basic rights and needs of other people. They are all shapes, sizes, ages, races and creeds. I want them all, but more than that I would like to see them drop their need to control and join the human race. Since, as the quote goes, "There is no way to peace, peace is the way" you cannot find peace without the desire that ALL people find peace. So all I'm willing to do now is defend my life and the lives of people around me. Nobody has the right to take life or control it, if we'd all just figure that out we could cooperate our way to things beyond our wildest imagination.

[metaforge]

Oy....

[kopperhead]

Max Power,
Speaking as a Vet and only for myself I really don't care if you are thankful for our service or not. I volunteered all the way down the line and I knew what I was getting in to. In fact to be honest, I LIKED IT. 
But you should at least be honest and acknowledge that there are plenty of people, organizations, country's out there that wish you harm and the only thing standing between  you and them are the members of the armed forces. Many things happen in dark nasty corners of the world that let you and your family lead a relatively peaceful life where you don't even have to think about these things if you don't care to. Count yourself as lucky that they are out there in the dark doing the countrys dirty work.

thank you for your service, sir.

and to those of you who did the same, whilst the rest of us could enjoy the easy livin of the empire....thank you.

my father served 30 years. and my brothers served as well.