Secret Internet Copyright treaty leaks. Its bad.

[shaleoh2]

uhhh oh   

[Mezzanine]

Squizzle

What do you make of the speed/price issue.  Is it not true that we pay a lot more vs. other countries yet have slower speeds? It's my rough understanding that our "Business" speeds are the basic service levels elsewhere.  Just wondering...

If by "we" you mean the U.S. then I can't say.

Here in the UK we have terrible broadband compared to much of mainland Europe, it can mainly be attributed to lack of investment by the likes of British Telecom. To make excuses, I'd hazard a sweeping guess that population density and the complexity of the existing 20th century network in the UK has played a part in this.

Where other countries opted to invest early in technologies like fibre, BT chose to simply whore out ADSL, getting every last drop out of their copper. ADSL's cheap, but with its poor range and the state of the cabling we've been left behind. Speeds took a noticeable dive when they rolled out on-demand television over it all. It's getting better though; over the past few years BT have opened up their exchanges for third parties to install their own equipment (Local Loop Unbundling). LLU has restored competition since ISPs need no longer buy bandwidth from BT. Virgin Media's cable network is generally superior to ADSL but it's still subject to heavy throttling and Virgin won't roll it out in rural areas because it's not worth it to them.

While we're stuck on this small island overloading our exchanges, Europe is awash with bandwidth. It's true that residential users in places like Sweden and Finland enjoy business-like connections. They're the sensible countries who had the foresight to place broadband investment high on their agendas. The rest of us may never catch up, particularly as the economy continues to crumble.

But yeah, the short answer is lack of investment.

As for the far east... didn't Japan have 3G in like 1995?  

[Mezzanine]

Look, we're going to need a redundancy, a fallback position anyway.  As energy costs rise, the giant server systems that form the internet backbone are going to become expensive to maintain.

The internet is about as redundant as it gets. You can't just knock the power off. The unfathomable web of routers and links ensure that, for the most part, things will stay online, even if areas are damaged or lose power. As for energy, check out datacenters like EvoSwitch. It's a start at least.

Not to pounce, but I'm always surprised to see these kinds of suggestions. It's like saying we might as well build backup road systems with our spades and wheelbarrows incase the current ones get blocked. It's futile. You can't support any more than a handful of users simultaneously on a 56k link, and besides, if "they" suddenly ordered ISPs to cut off internet access, what makes you think they wouldn't shut off the telephone system too?

The two are basically one and the same now, they're moving the telephone networks to IP-based systems anyway. Landlines, 3G, Wifi, Cell Phones, Smart Phones, Laptops, whatever you use and however you access it, it's all telecoms at the end of the day. If it breaks down, it breaks down.

I'd argue the only real alternative is HAM. 

[TLR1138]

Wasn't everyone here thinking the Internet would cease to exist anyway once TSHTF with Peak Oil or whatever?
Some of us are suffering from serious Doom Confusion.   

[shaleoh2]

Loom   (logging out from doom)

[haniel]

Not to pounce, but I'm always surprised to see these kinds of suggestions. It's like saying we might as well build backup road systems with our spades and wheelbarrows incase the current ones get blocked. It's futile. You can't support any more than a handful of users simultaneously on a 56k link, and besides, if "they" suddenly ordered ISPs to cut off internet access, what makes you think they wouldn't shut off the telephone system too?

I agree.

I'm not saying we can build a backup road, but we can learn to travel off-road. 

My thoughts are more akin to dial boards if there is phone service, setting up some electronic method of exchanging digital information. Think of a dial-in or connect in news service for a locality.  Classified ads.  "Have of wheat seed to trade, looking for pork or beef."   "Have lots of wool.  Looking for person who will work for sheep milk, cheese and extra wool" Think back to the days of the telegraph but upgrade their person with the clicker to a 56k or better speed.

In less than two centuries we developed these communications technology.  No matter how bad it gets in the short or medium term, there will be enough left to salvage a hybrid of yesterdays tools and todays ideas. 

[ArmaGoof]

No matter how bad it gets in the short or medium term, there will be enough left to salvage a hybrid of yesterdays tools and todays ideas. 

Occasionally, when the sun is shining and the air is clean, I think as optimistically as you do, too.  But mostly I sense total collapse of anything resembling civilization or civility not long after the oil stops flowing.  As for technology, it will be stopped dead.  Geeks may be able to still communicate, but they'll soon give up that tedious hobby in favor of finding something to eat and drink while they're not busy defending whatever they have prepared.

Face it, we're academic doomers.  None of us have been challenged to live indefinitely, off grid, without hope of it coming back online while under the unending stress of violent hijacking of what we do have, including our very lives.

I think a mouse will only be referred to as food.

[JoMama]

I see a huge rise in popularity of projects such as Tor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_%28anonymity_network%29 and Freenet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freenet which make it impossible for ISPs and PTB to snoop network communications of many people without spending inordinate resources.  For those communiques requiring extra paranoia, exchange private keys first securely (as in, in person or by trusted courier), and then it's impossible for someone to snoop unless you or the other endpoint gives up the keys (so naturally don't use the same key for more than one other person).

[2handband]

Squizzle

What do you make of the speed/price issue.  Is it not true that we pay a lot more vs. other countries yet have slower speeds? It's my rough understanding that our "Business" speeds are the basic service levels elsewhere.  Just wondering...

In most other developed countries the government is paying for 100% of the infrastructure or close to it. Makes a huge difference.

[paracelsus]

I see this as someone on the other side of the fence, as someone who produces copyrighted material that I use to help me make my living. I am constantly having to deal with people who rip it off and slap their own copyright on it in order to make money themselves because they are too lazy and/or selfish to respect what belongs to someone else. It is there to use for free. No one has to pay to read it. And yet they steal it anyhow to sell their own products or to take money for teaching "classes." I have found my website being sold on ebay as a book and it is out there on torrent sites for download. I didn't spend four hours per page for 550+ pages so some yahoo could call it theirs. So yes, I send DMCA takedown letters and rat people out to their webhosts when they steal copy from me. It is mine just like your car is yours.

I know someone who self-publishes in a popular subject. She found her most recent book on a torrent site where it had been downloaded 35,000 times. She did not get one cent for her work on that site, but that torrent site's owner sure did. So what do you think? You think that is fair? If so, please allow me to steal your paycheck.

Most of the stuff mentioned in this is already in place.

[2handband]

I see this as someone on the other side of the fence, as someone who produces copyrighted material that I use to help me make my living. I am constantly having to deal with people who rip it off and slap their own copyright on it in order to make money themselves because they are too lazy and/or selfish to respect what belongs to someone else. It is there to use for free. No one has to pay to read it. And yet they steal it anyhow to sell their own products or to take money for teaching "classes." I have found my website being sold on ebay as a book and it is out there on torrent sites for download. I didn't spend four hours per page for 550+ pages so some yahoo could call it theirs. So yes, I send DMCA takedown letters and rat people out to their webhosts when they steal copy from me. It is mine just like your car is yours.

I know someone who self-publishes in a popular subject. She found her most recent book on a torrent site where it had been downloaded 35,000 times. She did not get one cent for her work on that site, but that torrent site's owner sure did. So what do you think? You think that is fair? If so, please allow me to steal your paycheck.

Most of the stuff mentioned in this is already in place.

I'm not going to get into a philosophical argument regarding the validity or lack thereof of the concept of intellectual property, but let's talk about the concept of being innocent until proven guilty. No one has any business monitoring my internet activity without probable cause and a warrant; it's no different from tapping my phone. Are you okay with having your phone tapped? Basically the government is treating all internet users as criminal suspects. Are you really okay with that?

[paracelsus]

Do you think your ISP has no idea where you spend your time? Do you think the phone company has no idea who you are calling?

[2handband]

Do you think your ISP has no idea where you spend your time? Do you think the phone company has no idea who you are calling?

Nevertheless there are (or at least have been in the past) very clear definitions of the circumstances under which government agencies can demand that information. Whenever they feel like it is simply not acceptable. Whatever happened to client confidentiality? In short, the government has no right to know.

[haniel]

No matter how bad it gets in the short or medium term, there will be enough left to salvage a hybrid of yesterdays tools and todays ideas. 

Occasionally, when the sun is shining and the air is clean, I think as optimistically as you do, too.  But mostly I sense total collapse of anything resembling civilization or civility not long after the oil stops flowing.  As for technology, it will be stopped dead.  Geeks may be able to still communicate, but they'll soon give up that tedious hobby in favor of finding something to eat and drink while they're not busy defending whatever they have prepared.

What can I say, I'm a geek. 
 

[paracelsus]

No, the government has no right to know, but if they want to, all they have to do is ask the isp for the info, and they will give it. The real issue is that private citizens already know all about your actions on the web. My simple stats program, which is really primitive, displays the ip address of every visitor and shows which pages they visited, when, and how long they were on each page. Every site has a program at least as sophisticated as that. This is not even to broach the topic of spyware and adware and beacons.

Plus, like I said, the stuff that's mentioned in the OP--about DMCAs and whatnot--is already in place now and has been for a while. There is nothing new there.