Foodstamps will be used by 50% of American kids...

[s_j_wolf]

... at some point during childhood.
Of course, an article from the-press-agency-that-must-not-be-named.
For the article do a search using "food stamps" and "Mark Rank" (study author).

[mtlouie]

I read that article.  They're just getting us ready, aren't they?  90% of black kids. 

[InquiringCanadian]

From a Canadian perspective, food-stamps are a strangely humiliating way of subsidizing the poor. It is an indicator of the kind of desperation that America is experiencing that so many have to turn to food stamps.

Of course, Canada is no picnic, as we have high levels of per capita child homelessness and poverty. Much of Europe has expressed some suprise at Canadian child poverty on many occasions.

I would surmise that we should continue to see long-term trends increasing the costs of essentials like food, water, and power. Although there is a lot of volatility right now, (with some deflationary pressures lowering SOME prices), overall its going to be more expensive to live in Canada/US for some time to come. Food stamps are just a symptom of a greater systemic problem, which is currently not being addressed in any meaningful way.

IC

[john940]

there is not a day i go into the store and see people using foodstamps. if i lose my job and my baby has to eat i too will use foodstamps because i have bene paying taxes and paying into the system with each paycheck for many years now and i will see it with a sense of entitlement for myself after slaving away to fund everyone else's belly.

[vic_d]

Nathan sums it up nicely:

This, of course, is the vicious cycle that occurs when people just don’t understand math or economics. It’s difficult to see that when you give something to somebody, you must first take that something from someone else. Eventually that circle kills the work ethic as those who are productive retain less for their efforts while seeing those who exert no effort get more and more. This exacerbates the negative math circle as more government spending and indebtedness leads to a weaker real economy; that in turn means the government thinks they have to spend more; which, of course, leads to a weaker real economy, etc. The bad math grows and grows until it simply can no longer be supported. That’s where we are.

http://economicedge.blogspot.com/

[RMG]

Isn't the use of food stamps up to about 35 million or so Americans depending on them? It's a big number and will sadly most likely go higher. BTW, they aren't stamps, my understanding is it is like a debit card with credits pre-loaded.

For InquiringCanadian, the food stamp program in the States has been in existence for decades and, for the very poor, particularly the working poor, has been a way to help with folks getting enough nutrition. We have our own problems up here - Food Bank use is at all time highs if I'm not mistaken. We may just wish we had a program like the U.S. does to help feed our poorer families.

vic_d, I'm sure working poor families have a marvelous understanding of math (trying to live on a below living wage) but perhaps not the long term economic effect though. Their primary concern is feeding their children on a ridiculously low wage they are earning. As for those who are out of work through no fault of their own - what do you suggest they do? I don't see the corporations stepping up with a formal program to help employees who can't earn a decent wage. Corporatoions also couldn't care less about the unemployed. Yes, some corporations do donate to food banks but, is it really enough? There are few winners and many losers, that is the nature of our current economic system. The free marketers do not really have any answers for extraordinary times, nor ordinary times, come to think of it - except for pain.

I'm a businessman and I understand perfectly what the pre-amble is getting at. Usually those who write and believe fully in this stuff have no problem determining where their next meal is coming from. The real world is somewhat different though.

[Domscott66]

The answer is for people to no have kids they can not afford. Damn it, stop fucking breeding if you cant afford to support those monkeys you are having, it is called birth CONTROL for a reason. Now if you have a kid and can support the family WITHOUT government assistance and shit changes, alright, I can see the need to use the system to get you back on your feet, like unemployment. But come on! We are a virus that is just growing and growing and feeding and feeding on limited resources.

My daughter is one of these souls. Dont get me wrong, I love her and my grandchild but she had the first baby, both she and her husband were in the Navy, E2 and E3, they could scrape by without assistance. She got out and so did he and he cant find a better job than delivering pizzas...and she is pregnant again and actually had the balls to complaint to me at the lines to sign up for welfare. Are you flipping kidding me?! She is not very happy with me right now, I was not very politically correct when I expressed my opinion that perhaps instead of getting pregnant again that instead she should have gotten a job to support that family she already had. We both decided it was in our mutual interests to not discuss this topic again and that she should hold any and all complaints about her situation to those who could better sympathize with her issues.

[john940]

The answer is for people to no have kids they can not afford. Damn it, stop fucking breeding if you cant afford to support those monkeys you are having, it is called birth CONTROL for a reason. Now if you have a kid and can support the family WITHOUT government assistance and shit changes, alright, I can see the need to use the system to get you back on your feet, like unemployment. But come on! We are a virus that is just growing and growing and feeding and feeding on limited resources.

My daughter is one of these souls. Dont get me wrong, I love her and my grandchild but she had the first baby, both she and her husband were in the Navy, E2 and E3, they could scrape by without assistance. She got out and so did he and he cant find a better job than delivering pizzas...and she is pregnant again and actually had the balls to complaint to me at the lines to sign up for welfare. Are you flipping kidding me?! She is not very happy with me right now, I was not very politically correct when I expressed my opinion that perhaps instead of getting pregnant again that instead she should have gotten a job to support that family she already had. We both decided it was in our mutual interests to not discuss this topic again and that she should hold any and all complaints about her situation to those who could better sympathize with her issues.

thats a great idea and all but i am sure a lot of those on welfare maybe at one point or another had a job, decent income and yes... even they had kids already. in hindsight it makes sense to not have kids but not everyone has always been in hard times and you cant just unload kids somewhere that easily.

i am sure with this change we are going through there will be more cases of former white / blue collar workers who will need to delve into using the welfare system and it is just not fair to say to them "well you should not keep breeding" because these people at one time or another paid into the system which they will now have to rely on to make it through a time with no income / possible loss of all other benefits.

when it gets real bad i would encourage people to live the basic life and grow food, then populate and "breed" and create a big family to work the land and build a sustainable life. if you dont remember, thats what people used to do in the US when people worked the land and there is no reason that cant work again. that means bigger families but also self sustaining.

i believe that none of us here have any idea how hard it will be on those who had everything and were stable to lose it all and be forced to rely on welfare. for all we know any of us could potentially end up there as well.

in planning for the future we should also consider welfare a resource to use as well as long as its available and you qualify. i cant rightly rule it out for myself if i should ever need it.

[madison]

I understand the frustration of wage-earners thinking welfare recipients are bottom feeders using the system.  I've seen it, too.  Sometimes for some folks it truly is a means of survival, and it's so common in their lives amongst friends and family that it's the norm.  Weird, but true.  When I got pregnant, I was making $45k, had a wonderful support system and everything was golden.  Now, I made $16k last year, as a single mom with a special needs child.  Having children just destroyed my abilitiy to make a livelihood - employers HATE employing parents.  The system is totally set up AGAINST parents who work.  It's a frustrating fact of life.  I don't like using food stamps, but I will do it - I STILL pay into the system. 

Try making $16k a year before taxes AND paying out $3000 AFTER taxes for childcare for the freakin' privledge of working your ass off, being exhausted and having other people raise your kid essentially.  This is why people give up and don't bother. 

The system is f*cked.  You are f*cked, I am f*cked.  Everyone is f*cked. 

IT DOESN'T WORK.  FOR ANYONE. 

[Domscott66]

I do agree that there are many who had a set life to take care of business and shit happens...I am all for that, completely 100%. That's why I use unemployment for 3 months after leaving the navy looking for work and the reason my ex wife was on welfare for 2 years as she got her feet back under her. I do see it as a vital and necessary thing that can really make a difference in someone's life. What I get frustrated with are those who have mulitple kids they cant afford in the first place...and dont seem to care if they are on the system forever or not...they deserve it damn it, it is their right! They sit on their fat lazy asses and buy twinkies and white bread...I stand behind them in line...I see the skinny kids with the obese father or mother. It is sickening but god forbid someone say something negative.

You want to make a difference in these people's lives, get them a god damn job government and expect them to work in it. Get back to one parent at home raising the kids and one earning the money so we can actually raise good humans instead of this low life scum I see everyday because these kids are raising themselves, even when there are two unemployed parents at home. I am so frustrated...but like you have said, it will not last much longer. Soon we will all be on food rations whether you work or not...and then it will either all go away or we wil become slaves to whoever buys up America (China perhaps?). Buy the land and the slaves on it.

[yellowrocker]

There is already so much waste of food here in the US. The Society of St Andrew is one answer because volunteer groups "glean" vegetables from fields that would normally be plowed under. At the website above scroll down to the picture where a group is sacking potatoes to give away.

As an example, much of the potato crop is grown for potato chips. But some potatoes have too much sugar and burn when fried. So these are not worthy are left on the ground to rot. Such vegetables are still good to cook and eat.

If we didn't throw so much away, there would be plenty for all.

For youtube ad look -->http://www.youtube.com/societyofstandrew#p/a

I have helped out with a couple of "potato drops" - 43,000 pounds of potatoes in one pile that we sack into 50 pound or 20 pound sacks for free distribution.

[amfortas]

Definitely a stigma attached...
In my quixotic pursuit of a new hip, I periodically apply for Medicaid.
I know full well I will be denied, as the maximum income for adults in Texas is $321/month.(!)
I apply for the hell of it.
The last time, they said, "no, yer too wealthy for Medicaid, but how about a Lone Star Card?"
So I said, "sure! Why the fuck not."
So we eat like kings in the barrio....and I don't give a damn what the (mostly Hard Core Republican) Local Yokels think about it.
I find it strange that even the checkers (who, it urns out, are "on foodstamps" themselves) give one the Evil Eye.
Social Conditioning at it's finest.
 

[highstreet]

Nathan sums it up nicely:

This, of course, is the vicious cycle that occurs when people just don’t understand math or economics. It’s difficult to see that when you give something to somebody, you must first take that something from someone else. Eventually that circle kills the work ethic as those who are productive retain less for their efforts while seeing those who exert no effort get more and more. This exacerbates the negative math circle as more government spending and indebtedness leads to a weaker real economy; that in turn means the government thinks they have to spend more; which, of course, leads to a weaker real economy, etc. The bad math grows and grows until it simply can no longer be supported. That’s where we are.

http://economicedge.blogspot.com/

Thanks for the reminder of the cold hard facts, vic.

Eventually it won't matter whether we WANT to feed them or not, we won't be able to.

The argument can also be made that food stamps and other social services actually harm communities and families by giving the illusion that we can be independent.  They have ruined a generation's continuity of family and community interdependence and the important social bonds that makes, and the humility it brings.

[luna201]

The argument can also be made that food stamps and other social services actually harm communities and families by giving the illusion that we can be independent.  They have ruined a generation's continuity of family and community interdependence and the important social bonds that makes, and the humility it brings.

I think you've got it backwards. Food stamps and the like became necessary AFTER community and interdependent bonds were destroyed by the vagaries of capitalism and factory labor.

[highstreet]

The argument can also be made that food stamps and other social services actually harm communities and families by giving the illusion that we can be independent.  They have ruined a generation's continuity of family and community interdependence and the important social bonds that makes, and the humility it brings.

I think you've got it backwards. Food stamps and the like became necessary AFTER community and interdependent bonds were destroyed by the vagaries of capitalism and factory labor.

Correct!

Capitalism has tended to try to pursuade independence so as to sell more units per household.  And Greed did bring people away from their families to the big city to make more money. 

This fantasy was only possible because of OIL (somehow that always pops up on this site)

Then this fantasy situation of false independence was INSTITUTIONALIZED by Fed Gov programs.  Between Greed and Gov Programs they will strip out enough of the EROI from our oil inheritance that we will be forced to return to our family and community for basic needs.