R-E-S-P-E-C-T - find out what it means to us...

[zenobia]

Darling Forum Feral She-Bitches:

Since I was late the the smackdown, I missed all the good stuff last night and my forum girlies bringing it on to the clueless.  Dang.

Anyway, something I read somewhere on a thread this morning struck me - it was the word "Respect".  That is such an important word.  Following are definitions from one of the on-line dictionaries (since I am too lazy to get my OED out!)

re·spect
1. To feel or show deferential regard for; esteem.
2. To avoid violation of or interference with: respect the speed limit.
3. To relate or refer to; concern.
n.
1. A feeling of appreciative, often deferential regard; esteem.
2. The state of being regarded with honor or esteem.
3. Willingness to show consideration or appreciation.
4. respects Polite expressions of consideration or deference: pay one's respects.

I don't think those definitions quite get it, but they'll do for this discussion. 

This whole rape issue comes down to respect and esteem, I think.  Rapists do not respect or esteem those they rape.  This is why rape crosses gender lines.  But in particular, men who rape women clearly do not respect them, and this is highlighted in the comment in the cut/paste from the news story about the arrest of the suspects in the gang rape, which went something like "They haven't been taught to respect women."  How telling.

It is clear to me, from some of the comments made on other threads by some male members of this forum, that there are men here who certainly do not respect women, no matter how profusely they profess to love them.  Venting is one thing.  We all do that.  Teasing is another thing too.  But the little snide comments about "all the women in my life are like that" etc., is fucking bullshit. 

It also comes down to self-respect too.  We as women should value and respect ourselves and our sisters.  This has CLEARLY been demonstrated by us during this little fracas.  I love hearing about how daughters have been empowered by mothers and fathers here who respect women.  I have tried to raise my sons to respect women.  I think I succeeded.  I hope so.  I always considered it to be my primary duty to raise sons who would some day be loving fathers and husbands.  Isn't that really what it's all about? 

What I simply CANNOT comprehend is a man, who is married/intending to be married/the father/potential father of daughters/brother of sisters/son of a mother, talking about ANY woman in the way of some of the comments on here.  And I am not talking about the teasing/venting comments - I am talking about the comments made perfectly seriously during the course of some of the discussions on this forum.

Every human being should be respected.  Every human being should respect themselves.  We should take care of each other and ourselves.  Violence is no respectful.  Abuse is not respectful. 

(Some could argue that respect must be earned, but I think that is speaking of 'respect' in an expanded definition.   In this case, where respect must be earned, doesn't really apply in this discussion because should always be a BASIC level of respect for all human beings.  Of course this could be expanded to everything in the universe, but again, not germane to this discussion.)

I haven't had enough coffee yet this morning to continue, but I think you all can take it from here.  Let's talk about respect and what it means to us. 

[wordnerd]

I haven't had enough coffee either (or thyroid medication as far as that goes)
but, to me "respect" means you value the other person as having importance of worth, feelings, and opinions - and their right to have them. Respect means you see the other person, place, thing, or idea - as being worthy of "being"  - of their own existence. That you treat them as you would want to be treated. As Rabbi Hillel and Jesus said: “Do not do to others what you would not have them do to you.”


I will come back with examples and a fuller explanation later - when I have had coffee and I have time to actually write.
But I wanted to respond now, even though briefly, because I felt it was a very important topic

[MEA]

An understanding that when women share an opinion we are not just ganging up one some poor helpless man to be mean or because we are just on a power kick.

[cygnus]

Right on, Zenobia!  And right, MEA - let's face it, how often do the LATOC women gather to give smackdowns?  Not all that often - maybe three or four times a year, from what I've seen.  The righty and lefty factions on this board smack each other down multiple times a day over topics far less heinous than the gang rape of a child and you rarely hear any of them complaining about being ganged up on... 

I, too, missed the TD brawls - but I did go back and read some of it yesterday.  Wow, is all I can say. 

[wordnerd]

I missed the rant yesterday - I had to work and run errands and crochet a baby blanket!!!
Today I'm cooking for my son's birthday - stuff for him to take home with him
His birthday is Halloween and he will be 25!!! My youngest

So about yesterday... was someone drunk and posting? Or was it just Unpleasant people?

[Dasha]

I have tried to raise my sons to respect women.  I think I succeeded.  I hope so.  I always considered it to be my primary duty to raise sons who would some day be loving fathers and husbands.  Isn't that really what it's all about? 

On behalf of my daughters and myself, and daughters and their parents everywhere...

THANK YOU!

[quietnite]

I'm not saying this to in any way "dis" the men on this forum...Ya know I love you, even when what you say pisses me off.

But for millenia...many men (trying not to tar all with the same brush) have been threatened by strong women in unison. Women who tell their truth and don't back down= are scary for some. This is no reason to shut up, or sensor ourselves.

I think we are seeing a touch of that here on those infamous threads.

And there are topics that are difficult to discuss and only a history of posting as a decent person will get your thoughts understood. Why Stan got clobbered and though many had problems with Tang...he got more serious reads and responses.

Just my thoughts.

When men get together and get strident... it doesn't turn into centuries of stake burning, witch hunts.

They fear our power, for good reason. If we ever truly acknowledge how powerful we are and came together...it would be a whole new ballgame.

[Grower]

True enough, QN -- did you notice how bad the insults started to fly when we started to help each other? They flung the words that are designed to make a woman stop and hesitate and worry just a little about whether or not she is being "nice." It's important to fight that idea that there' some kind of rigid dichtomy between "nice" and "feral she-bitch."

And yes, I know "she-bitch" is redudant, but I just like the sound of it!

Respect means being listened to, to me. Having one's ideas being heard and acknowledged and not dismissed is key to respect. Nothing makes me more angry than to have some asshat dismiss something a woman says just because it's being said by a woman. OR, to have her feelings dismissed as some kind of hormonal effect. THAT truly pisses me off. It's the equivalent of saying, "Oh, those aren't real feelings, those are just hormones and I can ignore it or laugh at it."

Thank God Hub isn't like that, but I've seen it happen.

[quietnite]

Yes, I did, Grower...and what really bothers me- is that there is still a little part of me that hesitates after 49 years and questions my right to stand up and tell the truth. It doesn't stop me anymore...but it pisses me off that I was "socialized" so well by my culture that the hesitation is there.

[mtlouie]

I'm not saying this to in any way "dis" the men on this forum...Ya know I love you, even when what you say pisses me off.

But for millenia...many men (trying not to tar all with the same brush) have been threatened by strong women in unison. Women who tell their truth and don't back down= are scary for some. This is no reason to shut up, or sensor ourselves.

I think we are seeing a touch of that here on those infamous threads.

And there are topics that are difficult to discuss and only a history of posting as a decent person will get your thoughts understood. Why Stan got clobbered and though many had problems with Tang...he got more serious reads and responses.

Just my thoughts.

When men get together and get strident... it doesn't turn into centuries of stake burning, witch hunts.

They fear our power, for good reason. If we ever truly acknowledge how powerful we are and came together...it would be a whole new ballgame.

All you have to do is go back to the history of the Catholic Church in Europe and the witch burnings.

[Six Gun Jim]

I tend to respect women who are feminine vs the almost male loud, in your face screaming type. The power a woman is most likely to hold over a man is appealing to his better nature or being sensible when he isn't, not trying to intimidate him. I won't pay any attention at all to a woman who is yelling at me like another man would, doesn't interest me in the least. I almost always have to fold when she points out how asinine a thing I've done or said is with that disappointed voice. Of course you should be able to protect yourself, but that is a different thing from communicating. Just a thought, your power is great but I think (just my opinion) that women have been steered the wrong way in how to use their power. Seems like any more with the working "corporate" woman being the big thing too many women act like men. The most powerful women I've known are wise, patient, kind, sensible, self assured and capable. You know they could act like you and the boys but they don't because they have better ways of doing things, mysterious ways almost. That's the hook for a guy, you can't quite figure things out but you go along because the woman seems so sure about it, so patient for you to understand. A woman who acts like a guy makes me react by treating her a lot like a guy, the mystery is gone, I understand the field and the rules. This is just an observation of myself and what I have noticed really made me respect someone over the years. Don't be a man, don't try and use the same tact my father would have, I know how to play that game. My mother could always just look at me a certain way or say something like "oh boy, fine, be that way" and I just couldn't compete, immediately felt bad. Does this make sense? This is a hard thing to try and explain, I hope I didn't do it badly. If I did i apologize in advance. -James

[mtlouie]

Well, this summer one of my sisters and I were sitting around and she said, "Which of us five girls do you think is the most feminine."  It was definitely me.  I don't know why.  They aren't manly or anything.   Not particularly girly feminine, either.    Oh, and the older two don't use bad words, either.   

I know what you mean, James.  I honestly think it depends upon the man.  Some men are such decent types that a woman is stupid to do the in-your-face thing.

Some men, and unfortunately I was married to one, thinks women are owned.  Well, he did.  Now he's got one that owns him.  I like her!

[Six Gun Jim]

Yes, I see, that is true. I have yet to see a good end for either party when the woman does the in your face thing or the man treats her like an object. Most definitely there are different strokes for different folks, different situations different measures. -James

[Grower]

Well, overall nobody likes a shrieker. Or bellower, in guys. Yes, it's important for women to develop "that look." It works on children, students and most men. Sometimes it flashes, sometimes it smoulders, but it's always effective, when used judiciously.

[gnosis]

Very well stated zenobia.


And, by the way, you ladies are not in this alone.


Any guys out there who pick on women (in general), or the LATOC ladies here will be messing with my friends: Zenobia, mtlouie, redreamer, alecia, John Galt, Grower, honey, michelleinGA, rosemoon, SaraBeth, Pandora, DoomNymph, golddust, Cygnus and many others.


So, stop the bullshit. You got me?!


I have zero tolerance for Peak Oil deniers (e.g. Jeromie who is now gone)
I have zero tolerance for chauvinism, sexism, and abuse of others.
Some things are just not "funny" to joke about, and the internet makes such things even harder due to lack of facial expressions and special pronunciations often seen in real life during conversations.

Be cool everyone, stick to what we're here for. Peak Oil, life after the crash, survival, community, prepping and so on.