The grandchild from hell!

[Observer]

We were asked to keep the three year old grandson over the weekend.  His parents were both working.  When I got there Friday night, he was kicking the glass sliding door.  This is the conversation.  Mom says "Stop that".  Kick. "Did you hear me?". Kick.  "Stop kicking that".  Kick.  "I said "Stop that". Kick.  "Okay you're going to be put in time out".  Kick.  Mom finally gets up and puts him in time out which consists of sending him to his room to play for ten minutes.

He whined all the way to my house (hour and 15 minutes).  On Sunday morning, he wanted eggs and pancakes for breakfast and then he refused to eat them.  I refused to give him anything to eat until lunch time.  On Sunday, he wanted a grilled cheese sandwich and then refused to eat it.  I refused to fix him anything else.
The nine month old grandaughter stayed over Saturnday night.  He kept throwing toys and finally after asking him several times to stop, his grandfaher gave him a couple of swats on the butt and made his sit on the couch for ten minutes.  When he deliberately pushed the nine month old, I swatted at him, but missed (regretfully).  I told him "You are a mean little boy and I will be glad when you go home."
When thankfully it was time for him to go home, I refused to go.  I simply could not stand one more minute with that child.  My husband told me he whined all the way home.  I told my husband, if you ever agree to take that kid for a weekend, let me know because I am going out of town. 
I really want to tell my daughter-in-law that I would rather have a root canal without anesthesia than keep that brat again.  However, honesty like that would probably not promote good family relations.  After that weekend, my husband and I looked at each other and said, "that kid may be out own flesh and blood but he is a first class brat.  We can't stand him".   You know, my father used to smack us with a belt when we got out of hand.  However, we all behaved and at least family members would baby sit us and we could go out in public without causing a scene.  No wonder this country doesn't stand a chance.

[Hopeless_optimist]

He kept throwing toys and finally after asking him several times to stop, his grandfaher gave him a couple of swats on the butt and made his sit on the couch for ten minutes. 

Is that legal in the US? In many European countries you could get prosecuted for that.

But of course the child would need pro-active/guiding discipline before reactive/punishing discipline, something the parents should give the children.

[swampman]

He kept throwing toys and finally after asking him several times to stop, his grandfaher gave him a couple of swats on the butt and made his sit on the couch for ten minutes. 

Is that legal in the US? In many European countries you could get prosecuted for that.

But of course the child would need pro-active/guiding discipline before reactive/punishing discipline, something the parents should give the children.

The kids are like that because it is illegal in may states in the US.  I never hit my son, but I gave him limits and never deviated from those limits.  I got custody of my son when he was 6 and raised him by myself for many years until I remarried.  We had world class fights when he was a teenager because of the limits, but I never gave in.  The key is consistency.  BTW, he is 35 now and my best friend.

[wiccawench]

3 years old?

Look i don't know what planet you are on but that sounds like you have forgotten what 3 yr olds can be like!

Was this the first time he had been over your place over night?

So the food was different..... and you escalated the experience by making him "go without"?

Did you do anythng fun?

What did you do to make the experience positive? Could you do more?

Sounds to me like you disagree with your daughter-in-laws parenting style and set yourself before the kid ever got there.

Your refused to go back with the kid?

sounds more like you are the grandparent from hell to be honest........calling your grandson a brat. He is 3.......... geezus.

You are a mean little boy!



yeah that was really nice......

no the reason that the place is in a mess is because people have forgotten what it means to be a family and work TOGETHER! Sounds to me like you were inflexible. If the drive was and hour and 15 minutes away how often do you see him? Or are you a stranger to him? Is your house familiar? Three year old's (especially boys) feel separation anxiety acutely......

sorry........ you are the grown up........ putting the 3 yr old first for a weekend would probably interfere too much with your life style! Or whatever....... sounds like he NEVER HAD A CHANCE.  

[Observer]

Redreamer - hey, why don't you keep him?

I'm not going to let him hurt a nine month old baby.  I don't care how old he is.  And deiberately pushing someone is MEAN.  He needs to know that is not acceptable.

No, I don't agree with his parent's parenting style.  They let him do whatever he wants.  I was at a family dinner a month ago at a restaurant.  He continually waved his fork around and almost poked his cousin's eye out.  His father spoke to him nine times about it before he finally took the fork away.

His parents are having another baby in June.  I really fear for that child! 

Not to worry.  We are simply not keeping him anymore.  I would rather pay for a babysitter for him AT HIS HOUSE.

[Aussie]

"You are a mean little boy and I will be glad when you go home"

I swatted at him, but missed (regretfully).

I refused to give him anything to eat until lunch time.

I refused to go

his grandfaher gave him a couple of swats on the butt


You degraded him verbally, your husband hit him, you tried to hit him but missed and you let him go hungry.

Do him a favour and keep away from him. He doesn't need that sort of treatment. He's only 3 years old for Christ's sake. A baby.

No wonder this country doesn't stand a chance.

[wiccawench]

"You are a mean little boy and I will be glad when you go home"

I swatted at him, but missed (regretfully).

I refused to give him anything to eat until lunch time.

I refused to go

his grandfaher gave him a couple of swats on the butt


You degraded him verbally, your husband hit him, you tried to hit him but missed and you let him go hungry.

Do him a favour and keep away from him. He doesn't need that sort of treatment. He's only 3 years old for Christ's sake. A baby.

No wonder this country doesn't stand a chance.

+1! exactly!

I am not saying for a second that a three year old is allowed to hurt a 9 month old.... but really where is the proactivity? the love? the care? i did not hear ONE SINGLE POSITIVE EMOTION in your post...... ok so it didn't go well.....and you give up immediately? after one weekend?

i think the only thing i am hearing is that you were looking for bad behaviour! What did he do RIGHT?

EXPECTATION THEORY....Look it up! 

[tobyjones]

...but that sounds like you have forgotten what 3 yr olds can be like!

Was this the first time he had been over your place over night?

So the food was different..... and you escalated the experience by making him "go without"?

Did you do anything fun?

What did you do to make the experience positive? Could you do more?

Sounds to me like you disagree with your daughter-in-laws parenting style and set yourself before the kid ever got there.

Your refused to go back with the kid?

sounds more like you are the grandparent from hell to be honest........calling your grandson a brat. He is 3.......... geezus.

You are a mean little boy!



yeah that was really nice......

no the reason that the place is in a mess is because people have forgotten what it means to be a family and work TOGETHER! Sounds to me like you were inflexible. If the drive was and hour and 15 minutes away how often do you see him? Or are you a stranger to him? Is your house familiar? Three year old's (especially boys) feel separation anxiety acutely......

sorry........ you are the grown up........ putting the 3 yr old first for a weekend would probably interfere too much with your life style! Or whatever....... sounds like he NEVER HAD A CHANCE.  

I don't mean to be rude Observer but I agree with the above.  I do think that my parents would respond about the same way to having their life disrupted by a three year old.  As a parent and a pediatric nurse I think there are many different children with many different coping mechanisms.  Some are more challenging than others.   "You are a mean little boy and I will be glad when you go home" probably isn't the best way to encourage bonding with the child.  A strange environment tends not to bring out the best in toddlers.  The only thing that you mentioned that I didn't disagree with was not feeding something else after he asked for something specific (unless you make a really strange grilled cheese or something)  Three year olds require close supervision around infants.  (daycares usually separate infants from everyone else for this reason)  They tend to play rough and are not capable of understanding their actions (no capital punishment for toddlers under any circumstances)   Taking care of kids is a learning experience for everyone involved (parents, grandparents and kids all have input into the process)

It is OK to admit that you are not up for it.  If the kids require more than you have to give it is important to recognize it rather than put yourself in the position of making it a horrible experience for everyone.  

One other word of caution.  I just had a conversation with a coworker who had the police show up at her house after having photos of the 1.5 year old in the bath tub developed at Target.  Even if you and the children's parents agree on corporal punishment I still don't think it is a great thing to post.  It just takes one person to think that you and your husband taking whacks at the grandchildren is abusive to cause you a world of trouble.

Good luck!

[Aussie]

I'd like a bit of advice about a grandchild if anyone out there knows and understands 16 month old boys.

I look after my grandson for my daughter 3 days a week while she works. He was attending child care but he seems to have a low resistance to illness and spent the entire time there vomiting, with diarrhea, had school sores, had ringworm etc. Eventually we decided that maybe he needed more time away from groups of kids. I've had him for about 4 months now. He's a delightful little boy. Bright, energenic, funny, generally happy, cute and very entertaining. I try to arrange fun things to do during the day. We feed the chickens, check out the sheep, go for walks, go to the park, feed the birds, play with the dogs, paint, draw, visit friends with kids (unfortunately all older)

He is generally loving and will often put his little arms up to be picked up and cuddled, which I love doing. But sometimes he turns into a real monster. He will kick, bite, scratch and smack me or anyone else. This usually happens when he has to come inside and doesn't want to, or if he needs a nappy change and is not in the mood, or if he has been told no.

Initially we tried to ignore it as we didn't want to encourage it. Eventually we started sitting him on the floor facing away from us whenever he smacked, kicked or bit. We didn't try to make him stay there, but hoped the immediate rejection might modify his behaviour. Naturally we tell him "no", but it doesn't seem to be improving. I'm starting to think that maybe I need to give him a smack on the hand when he hits me, but I'm super reluctant to do that. Anyone have any constructive ideas?

[fredd58]

Observer:
You were correct in your first hypothesis - you do have a grandchild from hell - 'hell' being the clueless infantile idiots who birthed him. The people who have chastized you for attempting to correct the child or set reasonable limits are the reason this country has gone to hell - not you. By the age of three, a child is perfectly well old enough to know the concept of reasonable behavior and limits. If he doesn't, the fault lies squarely with parents who equate overweaning leniency with love or who just plain don't give a damn. Going to his room to play for 10 minutes for repeatedly kicking a glass door despite repeated warnings is 'punishment'? HOW? By depriving him of a glass door to kick?

The only thing I disagreed with was telling him he was a 'mean little boy' and you would be glad to see him go. That was over-the-top. Swatting his behind is not gonna harm his behind or anything else, though I always reserved that for truly egregious behavior, like shoving a 9 mo old baby around. But, then again, the concept of LIMITS was introduced early and consistently. I never knew of any of my kids deliberately attempting to harm a baby, but I've certainly seen other kids do it - ALWAYS the kind of kid you are describing - no limits, no punishment worth the name, no consistency. Growing up feeling they are princes - a dissociative, egoistic, bizarre, self-destructive concept peculiar to western societies - most particularly to the U.S.

[wiccawench]

I don't think there is anything wrong with limits. I sure as hell have them as SHOULD anyone with children.

 I do see plenty of what you are talking about when i am out and about.

I think it is important to have them and to have consistency yes. I totally agree with you there Fred.

But at the same time...... providing temporary care is different to parenting and one needs to recognize that grandparents are temporary caregivers.

Explaining you have different rules is fine.... but 3 year old's need time to understand them.

I went back to teaching part time when my youngest son was 2. He stayed with my parents 2 days a week. I dropped him off before school and picked him up after school. He LOVED it. He developed a close relationship with his grandparents because of it. They did things "different to mum" of course!. But the basic premise was they recognized their role in enhancing his life and his developing social skills.

I do think that telling a child ONCE is enough. Then you act on it. Don't threaten..... saying it once then acting on it teaches cause = effect.
Be consistent.

I think perhaps you were predisposed to see fault before he came to stay. I do think his parents are erring in repeated warnings. I do think their approach is going to be a rod for their own backs.

BUT

Having said that...... as grandparents you are in an ideal position to affect that by example. By closing the door to further association i see you lose an opportunity.

Please reconsider the entire event and talk about it with your daughter - in - law and son..... you and your husband should be a resource for her to call upon..... not judged for her parenting. All new parents go through the same learning curve (i am still going through it with my oldest and she is 26!)... ok so if he is a difficult child for you maybe he is for her too?

Perhaps you could help?

But you really do need to look at attitude and expectation.

[mtlouie]

Well, as I always say, "Nobody turns out the way they turn out by accident."

There's so many possible variations on this story......who knows?

Maybe the kid was just having a bad day.  Most of us have them.

Maybe there are things going on in the house that makes him have a bad day....

Maybe he's three....


There is a difference between a swat on the bottom (which generally just hurts their pride, and most kids are real smart about picking up on giving a good imitation of it hurting--- because it doesn't) and a beating.

I guess I agree with everyone.  The one thing I don't agree with is telling a three-year-old he's mean.  HE'S THREE.  He is just a baby.  Of course, he can't be allowed to hurt another child, but there are other ways to deal with it.

Anyway, again, there are so many variations of what may, or may not be, going on in that child's life, that to give any advice is kind of silly.

I know one thing that always helps a three-year-old:  LOVE.   Maybe he just needs some love.  Maybe he just needs to be told what a great kid he is.  Even if it isn't true at the moment.

"Bad manners are learned at home."  Quentin Crisp

[Dasha]

I think that the kids that are the hardest to love are the ones that need love the most.

Aussie, my youngest daughter had a Jekyll and Hyde personality when she was a toddler. There was no telling what would set her off - the toast being cut wrong, a seam in a sock... We despaired for a while and then read about lactose intolerance. We were willing to try anything at that point and removed all dairy products from her diet. The transformation was remarkable. She calmed right down and stopped having tantrums. We introduced some dairy again after a while and it seemed to be okay - it was almost as if her body needed a break from the dairy. To this day (she's 20) she doesn't handle milk well, but cultured dairy products like cottage cheese and yogurt are fine in small amounts.

Just a thought.

[heathenmom]

It's a house rule that no one gets to call anybody else mean.  The girls do NOT call each other "mean girl."  They may sometimes do a mean THING.  That does not make them a mean PERSON.  I don't care if it's splitting hairs.  Words mean things, and I do believe that people (including children) live up to your expectations.  If you tell a kid he's mean, he'll BE mean; it's like being a boy, or having 2 hands -- it just IS.  If you talk to a kid about behaviors that you want to change, then you have something to work with.

I DO swat my kids on the butt sometimes, but to be honest it rarely accomplishes what I wanted.  Maybe it works on some kids, but not mine.  A FAR more effective punishment for youngest (the hell-raiser of the 2) is making her sit on the stairs with no toys for a few minutes.  The oldest gets sent to their room.  Even though there are toys and books, she HATES being separated from the rest of the family.  Sometimes it's the only thing that will get her attention, and I've only had to do it a few times.

Just my 2 cents ...

[heathenmom]

Dasha, we had a similar experience with our 5 y/o, only she was having night terrors.  Within 24 hours of removing all forms of dairy (even trace amounts), the night terrors stopped.  We started reintroducing them in very small amounts about 6 months later and she does okay with limited dairy now.  Weird.