Prepping with/for kids

[honeydee]

I think these lists are excellent.  And to whoever posted about keeping a breastpump around, I totally agree.  In the even that mom cannot be with her babe for whatever reason and artificial baby milk isn't around, a hand operated pump would be great.  I don't know how it is for other moms but I never could get the hang of hand expressing.  This is also an area where I could see the wet nurse profession making a huge rebound.

[Six Gun Jim]

  You guys must have one HELL of a bug out bag. I can pack about #150 pounds consistently (well, hmmm, how about used to be able to  )  and I wouldn't even get the damn diapers and binkies in that much haulage. Good luck people, and you forgot something critical! Buy a mule, you're gonna need him and an infant carrier saddle for all this stuff. Chicken, I hope your kids build you a monument someday, soldiers get them but they never seem to remember ma. They ought to. -James

[Chickengirl]

there is some great stuff here!

ok, on to shelter


When you have kids with you, especially small ones, shelter becomes pretty important. Kids, esp babies and small kidlets, are more suseptible to heat and cold. Their bodies have to work harder to regulate themselves, using up calories and energy to do so. Helping them be warm or cool externally will be a huge load off thier bodies, reducing the chances of them getting ill, and reducing the need for extra calories (important if there aren't many calories about!).

being able to keep warm/cool is important to kids morale - trust me, whingy kids are not fun, and can bring down your own morale faster than anything else i know  . being cold, tired and hungry is not pleasant for anyone, and young kids even more so.

So if you have the ability to, having pretty reasonable shelter is a good start. Ideally, insulation, passive solar, non - powered heating (wood in most cases), thermal mass, deciduous trees etc would be used to construct a shelter. Obviously, that is a pretty tall order, but even some of those can make a big difference. draughtproofing in winter (but allowing for air sirculation in summer) and sealing leaks are important too.

Our shelter is our house - small, old, but sturdy. There is no insulation in the roof or walls, yet. Lots of big windows allow airing and air movement throughout warm weather, but mean heavy curtains are required over winter to reduce heat loss. uninsulated wooden floors ( the house is partially highset) mean floor rugs in winter too. We draughtproofed over winter. Shade trees provide cooling. It's not perfect, but we are improving it as we go.

Another thing to consider is that having a shelter that is relatively clean and tidy, and uncluttered does a lot for morale too. Kids often reflect thier environment, so doing what you can to keep the place relatively pleasant is a great idea. Getting them to help is even better - they have something to do, and a sense control over things  

LOL James, we don't actually have big bugout bags, we are the bug out destination 

but yep, considering how you are going to get a bug out bag for children around is a biggie- can someone else jump in there, cause aside from something on a hardy trolley, or yep, a donkey  I got nothin'...

[Six Gun Jim]

If you need to haul twice the mail with only a one mom power rig a wheeled travois might be one way, like a deer drag sled. A rickshaw isn't too hard to work up either, at least not now. Two bike wheels and a thrown together frame and you've got a rickshaw. You'd have to stick mostly to the road but at least you could move if it became critical. I figure even three hundred pounds on either of these devices on a road would be doable for quite some distance. You can even make a two kid power model if the kids are big enough. Maybe kids might be useful after all.  James

[madison]

Here's the appropriate place for the goat cart previously discussed elsewhere on this site!!!

[Chickengirl]

lol madison, that is true - a goat cart would be handy here

[luna201]

One of the main things to remember with kids, espeically special needs kids, is that they don't like having their schedules changed drastically. So, if you're planning on BO pack things that will be familiar -familiar foods, toys, etc. If the child is autistic, keep duplicates of their favorite toys (such as a game boy) in their BOB and remember to grab their favorite stuffed animals and blankets and such if you ever do have to leave.

[Chickengirl]

That is a really good point Luna - kids really like the familiar. Strange places, new routines can really throw them for a loop.

If you will be BO to a doomstead/safe place, make some visits there with the kids. That way they know where you are going - heading off into the unknown to a place you haven't been before is scary for an adult, let alone a kid. Have some familiar things already there if you can.

KNOW the route - you don't want to be lost with kids in tow (or lost in general). If the kids are old enough, take them with you on a few treks (if it isn't more than a few days, if you are using a car to get there, ensure at least that the older kids are familiar with the turn offs)

Clothes are going to be a difficult part of prepping, simply because kids go through a lot of clothing/shoes due to growing so much so fast.

Good quality shoes are a must - if you are expecting kids to help out and work, they will need good shoes. Small/growing feet are prone to problems if they are in shitty shoes, and this will bite the kid on the arse later in life. Teach them to care for their shoes too - polishing/cleaning can extend the life of a pair of shoes a lot. And being able to hand them down to the next child will be very handy.

Also good work clothes. And by good, I don't mean fancy, I mean STURDY. A few quality items that are easy to wash, repairable, etc will go through a few kids before going for rags/into the compost (natural fibres only). Consider what the weather/climate is like where you are/will be, and choose accordingly. Layers are your friends - kids get hot and cold quick, being able to add or remove layers is good.

(I know some of this may seem like really basic or common sense stuff, but if you haven't ever had to look after kids before, or you have only small babies and no experience with older kids, this might be useful)

Stock your doomstead with fabric for clothes making, and some basic patterns that cover a wide range of sizes (most patterns cover several sizes/age ranges). Don't forget notions like zippers/buttons, threads, trims, scissors  - there is a thread about it in the handcraft section of the forum, check it out.

Get some practice in handsewing. Yep, it takes a while, and can be a PITA. But if you don't have power for one reason or another, you'll need to know at least how to stitch up a hem, or sew on a button.

Wet weather gear is great. Snow gear if you need it. Try to stick with unisex clothes as much as possible - dresses and skirts are all fine, but if you're fencing with an older child, pants are great, yk?

HATS!! hats are a must over here A few good leather belts (not for belting kids, for keeping pants up ), don't forget things like gloves/scarves and lots of socks and undies. LOTS OF SOCKS AND UNDIES!! And singlets, and bras for girls if they want them.

babies in next post...

[Chickengirl]

For babies -

CLOTH nappies. Disposables are fine if you are travelling to your doomstead and you can dispose of them safely and it will take more than a few days to get there. But once you are there, cloth is your friend. You can get really awesome modern cloth ones that look like a disposable, are fitted, one-size-fits-most or sized xs-s-m-l-xl, and have snap or velcro fasteners - I like the snaps myself.  Or you can get good old terry/flannel flats that use pins or snappis to close. They all usually need a cover (wool or PUL coated fabric. We are moving to wool here ). We have both here, because terry flats dry fast and are multi use, while the bamboo modern ones take just a little longer (remember I'm in OZ, rarely does it take more than one day for clothes to dry). I like bamboo because it is antibacterial, super absorbent and needs no pesticides compared to cotton etc. You can also get hemp or organic cotton.

For one baby you will need between 24-36 nappies, 3-4 covers each in small, medium or large.

For two babies, add about another dozen nappies. The older bub will have grown out of the smaller covers by then so no need for more.

If you have twins, or another family with a bub the same age, double what you need in nappies, and add 1-2 more covers in each size.

You'll be washing nappies about ever two days with this number of nappies. A couple of large heavy duty buckets with well sealing lids are handy here - modern cloth nappies (MCN) dont need to be soaked, they get dry pailed. Rinse or scrape (the joys of parenting lol) off any solids into your toilet, chuck in the bucket, leave a maximum of two days before washing. You need only half the amount of soap, too much clogs up the fabric, NO fabric softener etc. Try to use an eco friendly (no dodgy shit in it) detergent if you are buying it, other stuff wears out the fabrics. Homemade soap is perfect . The instructions that come with the MCN says to rinse the nappies (through the rinse load on the machine) then wash with 1/2 soap, but we are slack and just wash. Water goes out onto the banana trees lol. when we don't have a washing machine anymore, then we will be rinsing and washing to make sure they are clean.

Hang in the sun - it bleaches any stains and helps to sanitise them.

Wool covers are lanolised - put a pea sized amount of lanolin per cover into a small amount of hot water and dissolve. add a bit more water, enough to just cover the covers soak for at least 1/2, over night is good. Wool covers are hand washed every 4-6 weeks unless they get poo on them, or get whiffy. Wash in a small amount of soap, relanolise after rinsing. Lanolising helps protect and waterproof the wool, but isn't 100% on the waterproofing - pretty good though. And wool covers are great because they are also very absorbent (the lanolising means the wool doesn't let go of the moisture once it is absorbed), and still breathable, reducing the humidity and the chances of nappy rash/skin infections.

You use a new wool cover at every nappy change, but you just air the worn one out till you get through them all again. And really, we only use covers if we are going out, or over night. It means we change a lot more frequently, but also have little to no nappy rash airing baby's bum out is always a good thing too...

Clothes depend on where you are - I'm subtropical, with wet(ish) summers, and DRY winters. So for summer, babies wear singlets and t-shirts with nappies. And HATS outside!! along with light pants if they are toddling. We have a LOT of singlets lol.

Winter is singlets, t-shirts/longsleaved tops, long pants and socks, with a beanie if its chilly. Sometimes we skip the singlet.

If you live in a cold area, add more beanies, jumpers, layers etc. Someone with more experience of cold weather babies might jump in here?

Bumwipes - go cloth. Add to the bucket, wash with the nappies. have a little spray bottle with some water/chamomile infustion etc in it to spray either the wipe or the bum to help. Old towels/terry nappies/flannel sheets/whatever cut with a hem are good here.

Plenty of muslin/flannel wraps - here they double as a light blanket/chuck rag/cleaning up puddles of pee rag (into the bucket again lol).

I can't recommend a baby sling highly enough - wearing your bub helps with keeping them warm, keeping the secure, and really clever mums can breastfeed while in the sling (and still doing whatever they need to do - I never got the hang of it lol). They are also really useful when a pram is too awkward or you need two hands. Such as when you are BO There are several different kinds - we have a ring sling, versatile, can go from newborn through to about 26kg, carry in a variety of positions, light, easy to wash etc. We will also be getting a mei tai, which is more like a carry pouch, and is easier to use to carry a baby on your back. I don't recommend those rigid baby bjorn style ones, they are shit for your back, and baby's spine. Google is your friend!

Co sleep. You don't need a cot. Co sleeping is safe and effective, especially if you are breastfeeding bub. DO NOT co sleep if you have been drinking or taking drugs, or are exceptionally exhausted. We have a cot, it currently has our folding in it lol. Co sleeping helps keep bub warm, and you are more likely to notice if bub is hungry before they start wailing. Plus if you are cramped on room, kids in the bed help reduce the need for extra matresses lol. Find somewhere else to have sex, be inventive

I encourage breastfeeding, but if for one reason or another it isnt an option, have a few bottles, teats and a bottle brush for cleaning. You can now get goats milk formula, which is much easier for babies to digest, reduces gut problems and reduces wind. Much better than cows milk formula, although more expensive. and yep, get a goat if you cant get formula, or even better, see if there is another mum in the area who is willing to wetnurse/express for you (next best option to breastfeeding by mum, but not always available i know)

breastfeed exclusively for at least six months - WHO recommends breastfeeding (with other foods introduced after 6-12 months) til two. Milk is babies main food source until about 18 - 24 months. Solids can be introduced after about 6 months, but dont be surprised if bub isnt eating that much or that interested until about 12-18 months. Babies dont need special foods either, just steer clear of foods that are often problematic until they are 12-18 months - egg, citrus, strawberries, honey, wheat etc. Babies guts need time to mature before they can handle most of those. Nuts can be a major issue, if you have a nut allergy in the family, exclude until at least five. Otherwise, between 24-36 months, NEVER unsupervised. 

toys - as long as they cant choke on it and it wont make them sick, anything goes. wooden is good, lasts longer than plastic stuff, cloth for waving about or trying to eat, a teddy - toys will not be high on your priority list, but some small things to help keep bub amused are always handy. Boxes are a hit here

babies dont need much - one end fed, the other clean, somewhere safe to play and lots of cuddles and love.

[madison]

Chickengirl, you are my kindred soul!  I could have written that post, lol.  Wow.  Wish you and your family were up here!!!

[MEA]

In a pinch, I've just rinsed and hung out wet nappies -- you can just skip the rinsing if you are short of water. I was such a slacker parent that in the summer (and in the shade) if we were in the garden, they just went bare bummed.

MEA

[Chickengirl]

bare arsed isn't slack parenting, it's airing out lol 

Madison, most of my friends love me but consider me a freak  I'm slowly converting them...

[honeydee]

bare arsed isn't slack parenting, it's airing out lol 

That's what I call it too.  My 2 y/o refuses to keep her clothes on these days anyway, whatever.

[justanouveaufarmer]

In a pinch, I've just rinsed and hung out wet nappies -- you can just skip the rinsing if you are short of water.

That's how the Amish do it.

[Chickengirl]

ok had some more to add here...

psychological prepping of kids.

This is the biggie - you can muddle through the rest, in most cases, but if your kids (or the kids in your care) are not prepared mentally and emotionally for most of the big changes that would come when TSHTF you are going to be in real trouble.

The idea of mental prepping making the biggest difference holds even more for kids than adults.

How you go about this depends on your current lifestyle and how old your kids are.

If you live in the city, here are some suggestions (others please chime in here!)

 - garden. organically. veges, herbs, flowers, whatever, but get the kids involved in understanding how plants (and foods) grow, how long it takes to produce food that way, what kind of care is involved, looking after tools and equipment, creating healthy soil, taking note of their environment.

you can do it at home, or through a community garden/cityfarm, or neighbours, or grandparents, schools, etc. You don't have to be producing all your own food, but helping kids understand what is involved in growing and maintaining gardens is an integral part of prepping them for the idea that to get food, you need to WORK.

- keep a pet. any pet, really, but something like chooks would be ideal, also guinea pigs, fish, cat, dog, etc. Something that gives them a sense for what it takes to look after animals - feeding them, caring for them, training if applicable, you get the picture. Lots of kids these days dont seem to understand how much time animals can take up, how much effort and resources if can take to look after another living creature.

- go camping/hiking regularly. being familiar with the outdoors, having limited creature comforts, knowing some basic survival skills will be useful and help them build their confidence (which carries on into all aspects of their lives).

- visit farms/do farmstays occasionally. let kids see where their food comes from. I was teaching some highschool aged kids (aged 13-14) about vege gardening, and one girl walked past a small plot of corn and said "is that how corn grows? I've never seen a corn plant before...". We live in a farming area. A woman I knew thought pineapples grew underground....

This goes for animal products too. Kids need to understand that if they like bacon, that means a pig goes to slaughter for it. If they like milk, cows/goats/whatever need to be milked. Fish need to be caught (the fun bit for most people), and then scaled and cleaned as well (the gross bit for most people).

And they need to know that all of this takes a LOT of time, effort and resources. If you can, WWOOF for a family holiday. Visit farms that are smaller, organic and labour intensive. After TSHTF (ATSHTF) you may have very limited access to synthetic fertilisers and fuel for agriculture, so seeing only conventional farms is going to be a bit pointless...

Of course there are lots of activties you can do - fishing, crafts, cooking etc. These can (and probably should) become part of your everyday lifestyle - start living how you feel you are most likely going to be ATSHTF, at least in part. The less massive changes required, the less traumatic for children (and adults  )

Skilling kids up is only part of it - you need to get them thinking differently. Encourage them to see different solutions, not just problems (Bill Mollison - permaculture dude - is famous for saying, among other things "you don't have a snail problem, you have a duck deficiency"  ).

One of the best things we do with DD is play the "what if" game.

"what if our power went out for a day?" that's pretty easy.

"what about a couple of days?" bit harder...

" what if it went out for a week?" hmmm...

"what if it went out in town for a week, not just at our house?" (she picked up pretty quickly on things like food going off in the shops, no access to money from the bank, problems at the local hospital - it surprised me!)

"what if it went out in town and at home, and we weren't sure when it would come on again?"

You can play this kind of game with lots of things - first aid/emergencies, growing our own food, running out of petrol etc etc

It gets kids familiar with ideas and concepts surrounding TEOTWAWKI without stressing them out about, especially if you make it fun, like a quiz game  and it encourages them to think about how we do things, what we rely on and why, etc etc. How far into it you get depends on the personality of your kids, and their ages. DD is 8 and is pretty cluey, so we can go further with her than we would with other kids her age. Some she gets things instinctively, sometimes it takes a bit for her to understand (like when we talked about how would you pay for things if there is no power to run the scanning machines at shops or to run the registers - she know thinks that relying soley on powered options is a bit silly  )

I think the best thing you can do is to take it slow but steady, and make the things that you do normal to your kids - if they have to quickly go from playing the playstation all the time and eating junk to working in the garden and eating mainly veggo, there will be massive adjustment problems. And dealing with that on top of the other challenges you will be facing in trying to provide a life for your family is something to be avoided if you can!