NY Times article on Newly Minted Attorneys who Will be Living Under Bridges

[JurisDoctorOfDoom]

Under a bridge it gets damp but if they can buy a good tent and find a nice spot, it isn't so bad actually, if the area they live in has a nice climate then at the least they will get lots of fresh air.

NY Times: Downturn Dims Prospects for Newly Minted Attorneys, Even from Top Law Schools

. . . the legal profession has been pummeled over the last year, with some firms closing and survivors often asking associates to take leaves of absence.

How bad is it? Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom, the juggernaut of New York, has slashed its hiring by more than half. For the first time in 136 years, Morgan, Lewis & Bockius, a respected Philadelphia firm, has canceled its recruiting entirely. Global firms like DLA Piper and Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe have postponed recruiting for several months to see if the market improves.

At Yale, students accustomed to being wooed by Big Law’s glittering names — like Baker & McKenzie; Milbank, Tweed, Hadley, & McCloy; and White & Case — were stunned when those firms canceled interviews in New Haven this month.

New York University, Georgetown, Northwestern and other top universities confirm that interviews are down by a third to a half compared with a year ago, while lower-ranked schools are suffering more. What is more, when interviews finish in a few weeks, even fewer offers will be extended, said Howard L. Ellin, the chairman of global hiring at Skadden, Arps, because many firms are interviewing students for slots they may not fill.

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/26/business/26lawyers.html?pagewanted=1&em

They go on to profile some guy who is $210,000 in debt and is not getting call backs from any big firms, the only ones he acknowledges who will pay enough that he can pay back the loans. It quietly dawns on him just how screwed he is. From the looks of him, however, it doesn't seem he'll be able to say "fuck it" and join a farm or something.

What goes unmentioned in this article is that these loans (and not just law school ones) are sliced and diced into securities so when the students can't pay them back, you'll see another sector of the banking industry collapse.

(Note that while I am excerpting, this does not mean you're allowed to do so here on the LATOC Forum. If the Times asks me to take down the above excerpt, then I can but it is very difficult if there are 50 or 100 such excerpts scattered throughout the forum.)

[Russ]

Lots of unemployable attorneys? Now there's a socially stabilizing factor to throw into the mix.

[Phildo]

What goes unmentioned in this article is that these loans (and not just law school ones) are sliced and diced into securities so when the students can't pay them back, you'll see another sector of the banking industry collapse.

Are not student loans guaranteed by the Big G .gov? 

So Uncle Sam takes the hit?

And then Sam hits the kids?

Used to be joining the Army would takeover or wipe out student loans.  So after plan B, C, D . . .  there is always that option.   Some rough-area volunteer / low pay work does that, too.


On the other end of things -- Real World Real Life Lawyers I know who are working bankruptcy, foreclosure, and collections are making Serious Bank right now.

[steelmoon]

At long last, the dirty little secret about the profession of law is coming out.  No, not that we lawyers are conniving shysters (that's no secret  ) but that a law degree is NOT necessarily a pathway to riches or even an interesting career.  That is FAR from the case for a large percentage of JDs.

(BTW not all lawyers are conniving shysters either, but that's a topic for another thread.)

There's a humorous new blog which also discusses the plight of recently (and not so recently) minted JDs.  You don't have to be a lawyer to get a laugh.  (In fact, you'll probably laugh harder.)

http://bigdebtsmalllaw.wordpress.com/

(DISCLAIMER: I am in no way affiliated with this blog!)

He's a bit over the top, but hey, exaggeration has long been acceptable in the form of polemic. 

I can't believe how much law schools are charging folks to attend these days.  Three years of law school – including tuition, books, school supplies, housing and food – can easily run over $150,000.  Add HEFTY interest payments if you have to take out loans to finance some or all of these costs (most do).  Add three years of lost wages you might have earned by working instead.  Add the cost of taking a bar prep course (incredibly, not part of your law school tuition) as well as the cost of the exam itself.  Consider additional hidden costs based on the fact you will be largely restricted to practicing only in those states where you are a bar member.... 

And yet the last newsletter from my alma mater boasted that the bum economy has actually generated a spike in applicants!      GRRRRRR....

On the other hand, if it had been relatively that expensive back in my day, that would have been enough to deter me from getting that JD in the first place!

Matt, maybe you should link that NYTimes story to the Recent Grads Topic too... Although the recent grads on this board seem smart enough to realize that law school or an MBA guarantees nothing except becoming another of Sallie Mae's bee-yotches!

[mtlouie]

We have a friend in bankruptcy law, and he's hiring. 

[boiler_92]

I feel so bad for these poor people.  I mean, honestly, what are all the people receiving B.A.s going to do now, if not go to law school?   

[SabreKai]

My heart bleeds for them. Let them starve.


Sabre
98 days n a wake up.

[Megadoom]

My best friend once said: "everyone hates lawyers until they need one."

It isn't just lawyers that are facing a mountain of student loan debt with no solid job prospects. That's alright though, things will work themselves out as there's always room for road warrior or body collector in tomorrows job fields.

[TheDignityofStruggle]

My best friend once said: "everyone hates lawyers until they need one."

Then they hate the lawyer and the law.

[advancedatheist]

On one of my email lists we've lately had a discussion about the deceleration in the rate of progress and how the real 21st Century doesn't much resemble all the brochures about it published in the mid 20th Century. We came to a consensus that the diversion of the smartest people away from reality-based fields (science, technology, engineering, mathematics) into law, finance and compliance probably has something to do with it.

Now the new law parasites have discovered that they've outgrown the productive economy's carrying capacity for their species. Of course, a lot of scientists and engineers in the U.S. can't find jobs in the fields they studied for, either. But their skills would work any where in the world, so they could in principle find employment in China if that country starts to issue something like the H-1B visas; whereas attorneys only know the law and procedures in the U.S., and they can't apply that knowledge in other societies with different legal systems and beliefs about equity.

[jonny quest]

...There's a humorous new blog which also discusses the plight of recently (and not so recently) minted JDs.  You don't have to be a lawyer to get a laugh.  (In fact, you'll probably laugh harder.)

http://bigdebtsmalllaw.wordpress.com/

(DISCLAIMER: I am in no way affiliated with this blog!)...

Thank you for the link.  I just spent the last hour plus reading the rants.  Makes Tucker Max read like a piker (is Duke Law T14?).  Oh the vitriol. 

Remember the Reeves/Pacino movie, "Devil's Advocate," there's this quote "... Kevin Lomax: Why the law? Cut the shit, Dad! Why the lawyers? Why the law?  John Milton: Because the law, my boy, puts us into everything. It's the ultimate backstage pass. It's the new priesthood, baby. Did you know there are more students in law school than lawyers walking the Earth?..."  Turning this quote on its head, wouldn't it be ironic if it's all the pissed off, un (and under) employed lawyers that pull the curtain down on the sham Republic the USA has become by filing, en masse, let's say creative suits who's intent is to expose the soft underbelly of the mafia class that runs this country?  Just sayin...

[steelmoon]

On one of my email lists we've lately had a discussion about the deceleration in the rate of progress and how the real 21st Century doesn't much resemble all the brochures about it published in the mid 20th Century. We came to a consensus that the diversion of the smartest people away from reality-based fields (science, technology, engineering, mathematics) into law, finance and compliance probably has something to do with it.

Now the new law parasites have discovered that they've outgrown the productive economy's carrying capacity for their species. Of course, a lot of scientists and engineers in the U.S. can't find jobs in the fields they studied for, either. But their skills would work any where in the world, so they could in principle find employment in China if that country starts to issue something like the H-1B visas; whereas attorneys only know the law and procedures in the U.S., and they can't apply that knowledge in other societies with different legal systems and beliefs about equity.

Much of the work of scientists and engineers in the modern era has been regressive, destructive highjinks as well.  Arguably, they've done a lot more harm than lawyers. 

[Bruce]

Ah bo ho ho. Screw em' if they are so ignorant that they do not know what to do. You have a law degree you dumb ass. Hang your own shingle and work cheap, hard and long. Work your way up through the ranks by actually giving a rats ass for what's right. Stop being a friggin ambulance chaser and take cases that have real merit and actually help people. In other words pull yourself up by the boot straps and make it on your own. You'll end up better off and better prepared when the good cases, hard cases come along. Stop whining and looking for the easy friggin road you piece of shit. Grow the hell up, life is hard. I remember years ago an emergency room doctor got laid off because the hospital (small county hospital) was under new management and damn near everything got changed including him. He actually asked me ( I was a deputy sheriff then and he and I had become friends) what should he do now. I was amazed at how ingrained into the system he was and how totally lost he appeared to be. I reminded him you have a medical degree you dumb ass, your a doctor remember? You have thousands of options and none of them are really bad. Snap out of it you idiot ...............................Bruce

[Chesyre]

white collar drones  making 45 k in shit jobs ,  with 200 k in loans makes me giggle. should have just delivered pizza's ya dumbfucks , same money no law degree required 

[Russ]

On one of my email lists we've lately had a discussion about the deceleration in the rate of progress and how the real 21st Century doesn't much resemble all the brochures about it published in the mid 20th Century. We came to a consensus that the diversion of the smartest people away from reality-based fields (science, technology, engineering, mathematics) into law, finance and compliance probably has something to do with it.

Now the new law parasites have discovered that they've outgrown the productive economy's carrying capacity for their species. Of course, a lot of scientists and engineers in the U.S. can't find jobs in the fields they studied for, either. But their skills would work any where in the world, so they could in principle find employment in China if that country starts to issue something like the H-1B visas; whereas attorneys only know the law and procedures in the U.S., and they can't apply that knowledge in other societies with different legal systems and beliefs about equity.

Much of the work of scientists and engineers in the modern era has been regressive, destructive highjinks as well.  Arguably, they've done a lot more harm than lawyers. 

Scientists/engineers and lawyers have far more in common than not. While there are some individual exceptions, as groups their nature is clear.

Each is fundamentally sociopathic, unanchored from any broad moral or philosophical perspective. Rather, each exalts a professional nihilism, what's called instrumental reason, where tactics and practical results as such are dogmatically declared to justify themselves, while any issues of purpose or principle are declared irrelevant. (Therefore both have flourished especially under industrialism, though I suppose lawyers will flourish almost anywhere.)

They sometimes try to come up with highfalutin ideological justifications, but in practice the truth us clear. In almost all cases lawyers and scientists are simply the whores and bootlicks of wealth and power, usually corporate power.