Stocking Seed for Next year, NOW

[pamela]

Ok, I've been concerned about something.
What with the swine flu scheduled to come back this fall, the possible attack on Iran  by Israel, financial collapse possibilities....etc. I'm thinking about going ahead now and get seed and put it up safe.
I'm going to go ahead and stock up some soil amendments and maybe even some bags of potting soil, vermiculite, perlite, etc... inside here where I can keep it safe and keep an eye on things.

I already have some bins of compost worms in here. 

Let's talk about some practical ideas for safe keeping of seeds in the event of collapse where we couldn't buy next year, or, say for instance there came an event like the magnetic storm being talked about in another thread, that damaged a lot of plant life?

What I plan on doing unless convinced to do otherwise is use this big giant, heavy metal deep freezer from the 30's or 40's to store my seed in.
It is totally rodent and insect proof and I feel as though the heavy metal would shield the seed from some radiation?
I'd like to hear some feedback from anyone about it.
The freezer is also well insulated and would protect the seed from sudden spikes in temperature.
I use it now to store canned foods.

[residualheat]

Good idea, pamela! 

I don't know about the radiation bit, but storing your seeds in an old freezer sounds like a good idea, as long as it stays dry of course.

I'd like to suggest making links with others to exhange saved seed. I've been doing this for some years and have a small but reliable network that I exchange with. We try to grow heritage varieties to encourage genetic diversity and avoid F1 hybrids, even though they are reliable.

What has happened over the years is that when you send out seed, you get surprise packets back, often of new and interesting varieties. If you give seed to a new gardener, then you tell them that when they're ready to do it, they must continue the tradition and pass seed on to others.

Another thing about giving seed away is that it's good insurance - if your plants don't thrive for some reason, and you don't have any of that seed left, you stand a better chance of being able to get hold of more from the people you've given it to in the past.

[pamela]

seed swaps are great and there are some here in the forum that trade seed.
I'm wondering about F1 hybrids and whether it would be worth the effort to grow the parent plants and cross pollinate for seed.
We have a bad problem with Tomato black spot disease here and I'm wondering about growing Big Beef? I think that's a variety that Grower recommended, but it's F1 hybrid and I don't know the parentage although I could grow out some seed from it and select to regrowing and cross pollinating, then I'd have my own! LOL

The old freezer stays nice and dry too. It's inside the building.

so, here's what we're talking about.

1. get seed early in the event of collapse this fall/winter. Find a way to safely store it.
2. try and stock up on soil amendments like lime, composted manures, blood meal, bone meal, hardwood ashes.
whatever you use regularly in your gardens now and expect to use later on.
3. get some composting worm bins going and have them indoors in a safe location.
you'll need them next year and the worm castings will boost soil health.
4. If you use a tiller or gas powered tools, later this summer you might want to go ahead and get some for next year.
Get any other things you commonly use as well, like some extra oil, or that chain saw mix that goes in the gas.
Just in case.
For God's sake use common sense storing gasoline!
Let's get these things secured now.
If all goes well and things are still holding together come spring, well, we'll be way ahead!
 

[akaskip]

 it's a good idea, i have been doing this for the last couple years.
As far as storing, i use plain envelopes and put them in a cardboard box, which is kept in a cool dry spot, this year i came across some corn which was dated 2005, i sowed the seed and bingo it was up, i would say about 85% germination, could have been higher if it was not for the moles .
I have also seen post here on keeping them in the freezer, never tried it myself.
 
   The worlds seed bank, i assume is also kept below freezing?

[akaskip]

 If you want to stock up on lime and commercial fertilizers and such, wait until about August and catch the big box stores before they clear their seasonal stock out, you could save a few dollars too.

[kats]

I'm worried about next year, too, but the world is in a mess, we are surely going to be able to get seed from our own stored seed and those of our neighbors?

[pamela]

yes akaskip, paper envelopes are far better for the seeds than plastic.

I think it would also be a good idea to print out and put in with the seeds, instructions on saving seeds.
It's different for different plants.
some self pollinate, some will need to be isolated from other members of the same family.
Let's find some good info and print it out and put it in an envelope in our seed boxes.

here's something I found on the net. I'll look for more or perhaps some of you have favorite instructions to share.
Let's keep it simple and straightforward and print and save.


Adapted from Seed to Seed, by Suzanne Ashworth (Seed Savers Exchange, 2002)

The seeds that heirloom-seed gardeners hold in their hands at planting time are living links in an unbroken chain reaching back into antiquity. Old varieties are threatened today, not because of any deficiencies, but because they are not suitable for factory farmers and the food processing industry. The old varieties will survive and flourish only if they continue to be grown by backyard gardeners. “Seed to Seed” is an invaluable handbook for both beginning and experienced seed savers who are interested in maintaining unique varieties and conserving our vegetable heritage.

You, too, can preserve garden diversity. Seed cleaning methods can be divided into wet processing or dry processing. Here are three-step directions for wet processing seeds that are embedded in the damp flesh of fruits or berries, such as tomatoes, cucumbers, muskmelons or ground cherries.

Three Steps to Wet Processing Seeds

1. Removal of Seeds
Large fruits are cut open and the seeds are scraped out. Small fruits are usually crushed or mashed. The seeds, pulp and juice from the fruits may need to go through a fermentation process. During the fermentation process, microorganisms such as bacteria and yeast destroy many of the seed-borne diseases that can affect the next generation of plants. See this book’s (Seed to Seed) sections two and three for specific directions.

2. Washing Seeds

The process for washing seeds to remove them from the surrounding pulp or to separate them from the fermenting mixture is basically the same. The seeds and pulp are usually placed in a large bowl or bucket. Add at least twice as much water as the volume of seeds and pulp, and stir the mixture vigorously. Viable seeds tend to be more dense and sink to the bottom, but poor quality seeds tend to float. Add more water and repeat the process until only clean seeds remain. The seeds are then poured into a strainer and washed under running water.

3. Drying Seeds

Dump the cleaned seeds onto a glass or ceramic dish, cookie sheet, window screen, or a piece of plywood. Do not attempt to dry the seeds on paper, cloth or non-rigid plastic, because it can be extremely difficult to later remove the seeds from such surfaces.

Spread the seeds as thinly as possible on the drying surface and stir the seeds several times during the day. Always remember that damage begins to occur whenever the temperature of the seeds rises above 95F. For that reason never dry seeds in the oven. Even at the lowest settings, the temperatures in an oven can vary enough to damage the seeds.

Never dry seeds in the direct sun if there is any chance that the temperature of the seeds will exceed 95F. Always remember that the air temperature is often not the same as the temperature of the seeds. Even at air temperatures around 85F, dark colored seeds can sometimes become hot enough to sustain damage.

Fans hasten the drying process; ceiling fans are ideal, and placing seeds on window screens is best of all as they allow for excellent air circulation.

[pamela]

I'm worried about next year, too, but the world is in a mess, we are surely going to be able to get seed from our own stored seed and those of our neighbors?

I'm sure hoping to kats.
but I thought it might be good to hedge my bets some this year.
Also, in the event of a big, and I mean BIG collapse, garden seed may be one of the best barter items you could have.
 

[Six Gun Jim]

This is some great info Pam! Great because I can grow many things but admittedly haven't done much to learn about the seed storage and harvesting techniques for some plants. I know enough to rotate maybe 20 plants well but that isn't very diverse. On your question of the fridge and radiation, remember that one of the best defenses against any radioisotope is simple distance. As long as the freezer is in a basement with a roof over it or you put a tent over it that stands off the particles it will help a great deal. The "tent" need be nothing special, just a tent, tall as possible or even a tarp that can be removed and discarded later. Damage to human beings begins to occur at 10 times normal background radiation, that's quite a bit really. I am not sure about seeds but I will find out for you. -James

[residualheat]

What wall thickness would you need if you don't have a basement?

[wordnerd]

I've been trying to dry seeds from the veggies I've grown this year
Next year I'll know if what I did worked
I hope that next year isn't a do or die test for me 

I've learned a lot this year - about "where" to plant things
I made some wrong choices this year 

Birds and/or squirrels - ate all of the corn and strawberries
My one pumpkin seed took over the entire garden!!! (one seed certainly does grow alot!  )
My peas did NOT do well
But green beans did
I've had to compete with squirrels, fungus/mold, and worms

Next year I want to plant
broccoli
asparagus
tomatoes
squash
lettuce
spinach
kahle
cucumbers
green peppers
more herbs
maybe watermelon

[Six Gun Jim]

What wall thickness would you need if you don't have a basement?

It is relative to the particular type of ionizing radiation, those typical of a nuclear blast would require different shielding at different distances from and would depend on whether you were in the fallout plume. As a rule, three to five feet of dirt, concrete, water or clay is almost certainly enough for any event you would eventually live through. A spacing distance of even twenty feet is possibly enough but there again depends on what isotopes are present in what concentration. Walls other than concrete are poor barriers, other than those filled with something like dirt. Radiation dissipates quickly compared to what most people think due to the effects of weather and decay. The 7/10 rule explains this and it explains why if you protect yourself immediately and for a few weeks after your chances are much better. -James

[pamela]

Wordy, if you want to test for germination, take some of each seed, just a few, 10 or so, and put them on a damp paper towel and slip it into a baggie but leave the end open.
in a few days, depending on the type of seed, you should be able to see if they are sprouting.
I have a sprouter that I use sometimes to test for germination.
that way, if they aren't viable you'll know it soon enough to be able to replace them.
I try and do that with any seeds that I'm worried about, like older seeds.

some people like to pre-sprout their seeds before planting too.

[wordnerd]

Wordy, if you want to test for germination, take some of each seed, just a few, 10 or so, and put them on a damp paper towel and slip it into a baggie but leave the end open.
in a few days, depending on the type of seed, you should be able to see if they are sprouting.
I have a sprouter that I use sometimes to test for germination.
that way, if they aren't viable you'll know it soon enough to be able to replace them.
I try and do that with any seeds that I'm worried about, like older seeds.

some people like to pre-sprout their seeds before planting too.

Thanks Pamela
I'll try that tomorrow
I'm leaving for work now - and won't be home until tonight

[residualheat]

It is relative to the particular type of ionizing radiation, those typical of a nuclear blast would require different shielding at different distances from and would depend on whether you were in the fallout plume. As a rule, three to five feet of dirt, concrete, water or clay is almost certainly enough for any event you would eventually live through. A spacing distance of even twenty feet is possibly enough but there again depends on what isotopes are present in what concentration. Walls other than concrete are poor barriers, other than those filled with something like dirt. Radiation dissipates quickly compared to what most people think due to the effects of weather and decay. The 7/10 rule explains this and it explains why if you protect yourself immediately and for a few weeks after your chances are much better. -James

Right, best hope we don't get any nukes dropping nearby then! We don't have anything like that kind of protection.