"A Tremendous Secret" (resetting the monetary system)

[ninakat]

So, say one were to trade in all the extra money they had in their account for silver or gold. When TSHTF, and paper money is worthless, could you realistically go to the store and buy food/supplies with a handful of silver coins? Or gold for that matter?

I know everyone here says to "buy gold!!!!" but could you really trade it for goods? Who would be able to take it? Would they take it?

Hi coney, those are good questions. And depending on how this plays out, there are different answers. I'm assuming that if the dollar gets reset (devalued), we'll either still have it or another fiat currency (Amero?) and that it will simply take MORE of that currency to make purchases. In that case, you convert your gold/silver back to the currency before buying something. In a SHTF scenario where currencies are no longer used or trusted, my guess is that we'll be in a barter economy. But in that situation, I would expect that many people would accept gold and silver bullion in trade, given its long-term trustworthiness as a store of value.

And, in the case of gold and/or silver confiscation by the government, here's a thread on that subject: http://www.doomers.us/forum2/index.php/topic,50641.0.html

Personally, I think the government gains little and loses a lot by ordering confiscation. Silver has never been confiscated, FWIW.

[swedensteel]

The 25% of global energy resources used by the U.S. is reflected in the fact that the U.S. also PRODUCES 25% of world GDP. Energy equals productivity. This litttle factoid seems overlooked by those who want us "green" (know that means "less aflluent" as a society, just FYI), and also gets obscured when we measure energy use againts our relative (small vs. world) population.

[J.A.F.O.]

The 25% of global energy resources used by the U.S. is reflected in the fact that the U.S. also PRODUCES 25% of world GDP. Energy equals productivity. This litttle factoid seems overlooked by those who want us "green" (know that means "less aflluent" as a society, just FYI), and also gets obscured when we measure energy use againts our relative (small vs. world) population.

So, uhhh.. this helps you feel better about fucking the rest of us over because, after all, your precious country is the most "productive", is that it?

4.6% of the world's population uses 25% of the world's energy.. so the average American uses almost 7 times (700%) the energy of the average non-American..  (and this figure gets much worse if you take the other 1st world countries into account) so just how do you figure that "gets obscured" by your small population?

And as for "affluent", well, give it a year or two and see how affluent the USofA feels then...

[pg]

...the U.S. also PRODUCES 25% of world GDP...

I thought GDP computations included also paid services and not only goods. The value you assign to services (the financial ones so splendidly worked out in the last years, for instance) are somewhat arbitrary. So the use of the term PRODUCE, and its equation to energy, in relation to GDP is a little annoying to me.

[J.A.F.O.]

Thanks pg, that bugs me for the same reason too, but I forgot to mention that..

[mtlouie]

Energy equals productivity

Good lord, another newb, coming to LATOC to show us how brilliant they are and they know zero about what energy is and what it does.

I still think Matt needs to institute a 30 day ban policy on these people.  They HAVE to read all of his stuff before they can get back on the forum.

[ninakat]

Energy equals productivity

Good lord, another newb, coming to LATOC to show us how brilliant they are and they know zero about what energy is and what it does.

I still think Matt needs to institute a 30 day ban policy on these people.  They HAVE to read all of his stuff before they can get back on the forum.

Until then, let's not feed the trolls.... although I did appreciate J.A.F.O.'s response. 

[Abhaha]

Until then, let's not feed the trolls.... although I did appreciate J.A.F.O.'s response. 

Yeah...really this kind of self aggrandizing hubris gives me a fucking headache.

[ninakat]

Chris Martenson's POV on the dollar, including his response to Mish's recent article:

A Dollar Crisis in the Making

[swedensteel]

LOL... Interesting to see you "Hero Members" all in a dither over my simple comment that "energy equals productivity". Do you disagree with that staement, or simply with my "newb" status, the fact that I actually made a comment? Let's split hairs over services contribution to GDP and energy usage!! HA! Some of your comments confirm what I suspected: you are not merely "preparing for LATOC", but are self-aggrandizing and actually looking fowad to the loss of US industrial and economic power. That'a a whole different thing than acknowleding and dealing with LATOC.  Look at the level of ego you exhibited, your "holier-than-thou commentary", with only the goal f diminiishing me and my input.  Then, look in the mirror. (How's that going for ya?). 

[Grower]

Geez. Sensitive much? Hang around. Get to know people. Get to know the place. Then you'll be able to realistically evaluate the site.

Honestly. Hang out awhile here. We always argue with each other. Often it's healthy debate. Sometimes it's sniping, but hey, we're human. Or you might come to decide this isn't a place you want to be. Which is fine, too.

[J.A.F.O.]

Some of your comments confirm what I suspected: you are not merely "preparing for LATOC", but are self-aggrandizing and actually looking fowad to the loss of US industrial and economic power. That'a a whole different thing than acknowleding and dealing with LATOC. 

If you just "suspect", you need to read more of the posts here.. hell yes, I look forward to the total collapse of the USofA.. The rest of us (the entire world, of which the US is just a tiny part) are sick of being fucked over by Uncle Sam for the sake of the almighty dollar, and lots of us look forward to seeing you go down...  not to mention it's the best damn chance we have to save the planet.

And despite what you say, that IS part of "acknowledging and dealing with LATOC" and is far from self-aggrandisement.. seeing the cancer which has been killing the world wither and die will be the best part of the whole thing.. indeed, it will be the ONLY good thing about what is coming..

[rdocr]

Historically, to my knowledge, we have had one such event as a possible currency devaluation. In the 1970's, there was a flurry of rumors floating about- even before the Internet, that the government had already printed the new dollars and the ratio would be 10 old dollars for the new dollar. They were supposed to already be in bank vaults ready for distribution when announced.
The problem they faced was expensive coinage. It would mean reminting all the coinage at high cost so they decided to just allow the present coinage to revalue. The cost also included retooling all the coin operated vending machinery.

This created a scarcity of coins in the marketplace because everyone was scooping up all the coins they could .

Nothing happened, and the coins gradually came back into circulation, AFTER the pre-1965 coins that were silver had been kept back, even though silver was still cheap. There was a time in Las Vegas when the slots took silver dollars, rather than tokens.

What about today?

A revaluation of 10 to 1 would hardly do any good, with our trillion bucks of debt. Even 1000 to 1 wouldn’t be felt.

Finally, the move that would count would be to go back on the gold standard by revaluing the current gold in storage by the Feds to cover the outstanding paper. That would mean revaluing gold to about $38,000 an ounce.

The problem with this is that they would have created a situation whereby currency would be limited to the stored gold on hand to cover it. They couldn’t over spend or borrow.

That fosters another problem. We would need a whole new generation of Congressmen- those in there now wouldn’t know how to act- without being able to borrow.

And Bernanke would be out of a job- imagine that- the Chairman of the Fed Reserve would be eligible for unemployment.

Except for the last remarks, this is all serious. That is why I wrote the Barter Handbook

Lots and LOTS of Luck = LLOC

Ralph

[Filipek]

If you just "suspect", you need to read more of the posts here.. hell yes, I look forward to the total collapse of the USofA.. The rest of us (the entire world, of which the US is just a tiny part) are sick of being fucked over by Uncle Sam for the sake of the almighty dollar, and lots of us look forward to seeing you go down...  not to mention it's the best damn chance we have to save the planet.

The dollar crash isn't going to just screw up the USA, the effects of a dollar crash are going to be more far reaching than many here suspect, I think. In much of Eastern Europe the vast majority of business is done in dollars, most people have their savings and assets in US$ and in Ukraine it's more or less the de-facto currency now the hryvnia's fallen off the face of the Earth. I believe that in many South American nations this is also the case. So to say that a dollar crash will have the rest of the world laughing smugly as the "evil empire" collapses is naive to say the least.

For example, Ukraine's a major transit route for EU gas, has been on the verge of collapse for a while and civil war is not beyond the realm of possibility. With no more purchasing power left, what's going to happen there? Gas transit is the only thing they can bring to the table, and neither the EU or Russia is going to sit idly by and let a repeat of this year's fiasco take place. Moreover, Eastern Europe is one of the EU's major trading parters, so people their losing all their spending power (a great much of which is in dollars) is going to ruin what little "productivity" remains in Europe too. Owing to the hegemony of the dollar, when it fails we [the rest of the world] will fail with it. Civil wars, regime changes and all manner of crap will rain down on the rest of the world and as bad as it will be in the USA, it's going to be far worse in much of the rest of the world.

Now, I do agree, however, that we need to save the planet... but I just don't think schadenfreude is going to help very much

[graveday]

If you just "suspect", you need to read more of the posts here.. hell yes, I look forward to the total collapse of the USofA.. The rest of us (the entire world, of which the US is just a tiny part) are sick of being fucked over by Uncle Sam for the sake of the almighty dollar, and lots of us look forward to seeing you go down...  not to mention it's the best damn chance we have to save the planet.

The dollar crash isn't going to just screw up the USA, the effects of a dollar crash are going to be more far reaching than many here suspect, I think. In much of Eastern Europe the vast majority of business is done in dollars, most people have their savings and assets in US$ and in Ukraine it's more or less the de-facto currency now the hryvnia's fallen off the face of the Earth. I believe that in many South American nations this is also the case. So to say that a dollar crash will have the rest of the world laughing smugly as the "evil empire" collapses is naive to say the least.

For example, Ukraine's a major transit route for EU gas, has been on the verge of collapse for a while and civil war is not beyond the realm of possibility. With no more purchasing power left, what's going to happen there? Gas transit is the only thing they can bring to the table, and neither the EU or Russia is going to sit idly by and let a repeat of this year's fiasco take place. Moreover, Eastern Europe is one of the EU's major trading parters, so people their losing all their spending power (a great much of which is in dollars) is going to ruin what little "productivity" remains in Europe too. Owing to the hegemony of the dollar, when it fails we [the rest of the world] will fail with it. Civil wars, regime changes and all manner of crap will rain down on the rest of the world and as bad as it will be in the USA, it's going to be far worse in much of the rest of the world.

Now, I do agree, however, that we need to save the planet... but I just don't think schadenfreude is going to help very much

Well, Filipek, I know you are in Poland, but you sound like an expat.  The EU and US have in common, U.  Heh.  Before he was hounded off the forum by the dogs of save the planet, Jeromie seemed to be saying the same as you.  The dollar rules for now.  You do seem to extrapolate gratuitously to continents far away, but maybe you have an internet feel for them, pixelated, as it were.  But your global scenario, crap raining down, rings true.  I only wish I had coined the phrase, "a great much of which."
Oh, and I am on record, along with no less than George Carlin, that the planet is going to do fucking well for another buncha billion years.  Shit, I hate to sound to so shitty.