Post-peak life in Canada

[forager]

Cindy, have you considered using earth to shelter within?  There are several methods to this ... my favorite is PAHS (passive annual heat storage)  http://www.earthshelters.com/Ch_1.html

I'm working out how to adapt my full basement to pahs so I don't have to build another house.   

I am of the opinion that there is no good reason to burn excessive amounts of wood (or anything else for that matter) to maintain warmth and comfort in the winter.  As you said, it's just not sustainable (for me) to burn wood to heat a large old farmhouse at temps that see -15F.  I suppose that there are places that have woodlots that could sustain themselves, but I'm not one (and apparently neither are you).  The big question comes down to method ... how to minimize the need to continually add heat during the cold months.  Large amounts of insulation and/or earth sheltering seem to be the most realistic means to me.

I'm also looking at how to use a smallish wind generator to drive heating elements in a water tank (in the basement) for a radiant heat source.  I get significant wind here and have found 12vdc heating elements @<400 watts 
http://www.reuk.co.uk/200W-12V-Immersion-Heater.htm
Water stores heat well and a radiant source semi-underground also acts as a thermal flywheel, evening out temperature swings over the day.

All-in-all, I'm thinking that stick-built houses sitting exposed with minimal insulation are the real unsustainable issue with heating.

Good points here. I would also consider heating only one room in the winter. Preferably the kitchen with an adjacent bath. Shut off water to the rest of the house. Keep above freezing and get some good sleeping bags and outdoor gear. Replace the kitchen furniture with the beds. When you get cabin fever, go outside and walk around in your winter Carhardts or just sit in a snow bank on a sunny day. Or burn all your wood and be a victim.

[Dasha]

It was the 70s...maybe things were different then as far as how much was imported vs purchased from Alberta (?)  It is what it is, though. 

There was no love lost between Alberta and Ontario in those days. I moved from Ontario to Alberta in 1974, and I remember an older man telling me that I was the only easterner that he had ever met that he liked. Ouch.

I think that the average Canadian has no idea where their oil comes from.

[cindy]

It was the 70s...maybe things were different then as far as how much was imported vs purchased from Alberta (?)  It is what it is, though. 

There was no love lost between Alberta and Ontario in those days. I moved from Ontario to Alberta in 1974, and I remember an older man telling me that I was the only easterner that he had ever met that he liked. Ouch.

I think that the average Canadian has no idea where their oil comes from.

Judging by comments I read on other boards when that absurd coalition was trying to oust the Tories (not that I am big fan of Harper's government at the moment, mind you, but that coalition was no solution), I am not sure that there is much love lost even today.

And I think you're right about Canadians not knowing where their oil comes from.  I think  afair number don't even know where their food comes from!

[cindy]

Cindy, have you considered using earth to shelter within?  There are several methods to this ... my favorite is PAHS (passive annual heat storage)  http://www.earthshelters.com/Ch_1.html

I'm working out how to adapt my full basement to pahs so I don't have to build another house.   

I am of the opinion that there is no good reason to burn excessive amounts of wood (or anything else for that matter) to maintain warmth and comfort in the winter.  As you said, it's just not sustainable (for me) to burn wood to heat a large old farmhouse at temps that see -15F.  I suppose that there are places that have woodlots that could sustain themselves, but I'm not one (and apparently neither are you).  The big question comes down to method ... how to minimize the need to continually add heat during the cold months.  Large amounts of insulation and/or earth sheltering seem to be the most realistic means to me.

I'm also looking at how to use a smallish wind generator to drive heating elements in a water tank (in the basement) for a radiant heat source.  I get significant wind here and have found 12vdc heating elements @<400 watts 
http://www.reuk.co.uk/200W-12V-Immersion-Heater.htm
Water stores heat well and a radiant source semi-underground also acts as a thermal flywheel, evening out temperature swings over the day.

All-in-all, I'm thinking that stick-built houses sitting exposed with minimal insulation are the real unsustainable issue with heating.

Good points here. I would also consider heating only one room in the winter. Preferably the kitchen with an adjacent bath. Shut off water to the rest of the house. Keep above freezing and get some good sleeping bags and outdoor gear. Replace the kitchen furniture with the beds. When you get cabin fever, go outside and walk around in your winter Carhardts or just sit in a snow bank on a sunny day. Or burn all your wood and be a victim.

I am not sure one has to go that far, but I can definitely agree with using less of the house in winter.  My mother grew up on a farm where the woodstove in the kitchen was the only source of heat.  We also had a family cottage that was the same.  In both cases, you just really piled on the blankets at night and slept comfortably in a cold bedroom.  I used to just stay in bed until *someone* got the fire going in the morning.  Now, however, that *someone* might end up being me, lol, so I'll have to keep warm boots and gloves by the bed.

[Calles]

I might be in Calgary if anyone wants to beat off the hordes. I'll stick with who still has some oil to mine.

[Tinfoilhatmann]

Considering the amount of oil, natural gas and water that goes into extracting all that oil from the sand out, things will probably screech to a halt the same as any where else. You'll be freezing in the dark while they pump that black gold down south.

[peter31]

I suppose you could make out a case that if Alberta is causing massive damage to its own environment by the oil extraction process, it should be entitled to the benefits.  I guess Ontario isn't going to volunteer to import the tar sands waste or export the fresh water.

[AnnS]

I see Ontario falling apart due to unrest due to unemployment.  Quebec may go but form some sort of looser affliation with ROC.  The Atlantic provinces will be adrift and smarting on their own oil reserves.  ABC - Alberta & BC will separate.  The country will fall apart when the Industrial economy collapses.

[sc]

I was hoping to revive this thread in light of further developments down south and here in "Gods" country

In light of stage 2 collapse beginning in earnest now down south (commercial collapse) does anyone really think that the Canadian economy will not see a major contraction next year.  In my line we have laid off 3 staff at our clinic and have seen revenues fall 15% as people begin to tighten down (yes even here in land of milk and honey Alberta).

In spite of having all these "resources" I do not see how Canada can do well in the strongly deflationary environment that now exists worldwide.

Discussion?

[Annie Oakley]

After reading this thread, I think my move to Newfoundland from southern Ontario was a wise one. Whatever happens, I think  we will be largely left alone(not good for the unprepared....but the vast majority of "them" are 7 hours away from me).
The smaller communities still work as communities for the most part here. Trading stuff, or helping somebody out (helping with getting their wood for example) in trade for something they have is very common.
The being left alone thing to me sounds safest. Where I have my cabin, there is one other person in the area(that I know of, at the moment) that is living there full time. With him, or if there was more, I am sure that there would be no problem in working together. In taking care of one another. I don't think that this would happen so easily in other places in Canada.

[Xenopus]

  Like those people who put their heating at 25C in winter and AC at 19C in summer, meaning nearly everyone (like wtf).

AC in Canada?  Boy some people are in for a real shock, aren't they.

[peter31]

After reading this thread, I think my move to Newfoundland from southern Ontario was a wise one.

I moved in the other direction, from Newfoundland to southern Ontario in 2007 (and found out about peak oil at the airport on the way out).  I think Newfoundland would probably be a good place to be in a SHTF situation except for one thing: food supply.  The climate and soil just don't seem to be very sympathetic to growing stuff except trees and moose.  Example: I tried to grow some pumpkins for the kids for Halloween.  I tended them lovingly for a whole season, even hand-pollinating them due to lack of insects, and all I got was small green unripened pumpkins at the end of the year.  When the kids brought their pumpkins in to school, you could easily tell the Newfoundland pumpkins (small, green, unripe) from the Ontario pumpkins (big, fat, yellow).   

[Annie Oakley]

While I haven't tried to grow pumpkins yet....squash is on the garden menu for next year...will let you know how I make out.
But potatoes, cabbage turnip, carrots(you've lived here...you know...the standard fare.....) are good food crops that do well here. I have had success with zucchini(oh yay ),lettuce, kale(well the cabbage worms got more of it than I did ),swiss chard, lettuce, leeks,I have all sorts of herbs. I moved here in 06 and this was the first summer that I got "red" tomatoes(took more doing than when I was in Ontario).
I haven't tried onions or garlic yet.
Plus there are more berry bushes here(blue,rasp,cran,bake apple) than there are people.
While the fish may be in short supply around here......the moose and the rabbit are plentiful.
You had said before that you were in Kippens when you were here. So you have an idea about the population layout.  I think that if TSHTF that for the most part, say nothing coming into or out of the island. That the first year or two would be the pinch.....I know that there are quite a few gardeners in the area. I think that people who have knowledge about seed saving(like me and hopefully those I can teach in the future) and are willing to put a bit of our crops aside to save and pass onto others....will be in a special position.
Plus there are a lot of people here, that I know of who can spend a week out in the bush>without bringing food in with them.
Another plus that I have thought about is that when TSHTF...gov/ or military interference would be at a minimum compared to other places.(St.john's doesn't think any other part of the island exists now)...so when supplies are limited...I doubt they will make their way out here.
We do have a base in S'ville and in CB(my daughter is in the militia>just on her way back from going to St.J's to do something or other with Prince Chuck).
Just my take on it....before moving here I put a lot of thought into it in regards to PO and other doom scenarios.

[SabreKai]

Im inclined to agree with AnnS. Alberta and BC are getting pretty major hardons for the rest of Canada and will split at the drop of a hat. Every one hates Quebec, so they can go pound sand too. The Maritimes will end up alone, or maybe in a loose relationship with Quebec. All of it will be invaded by people coming up from the US. And I don't believe for one minute that Alberta would be keeping its oil. Our buddies to the south would steal it in a heartbeat and theres nothing we could do to stop it from happening.  As to where a good place is to hunker down? Its bloody cold up here in winter unless you go to BC. I'd be inclined to head to the Maritimes, or up into Northern Ontario. It doesn't really make any difference.


Sabre
29 days n a wake up

[homesteadelectric]

Yes, winter is the big problem. Food aside, just clearing the snow off roads and highways requires huge amounts of diesel. (The same applies to the northern tier of States.) Canada will suffer the same fate as the US, but delayed by a few weeks/months. Wood will keep you warm for a while but then the supply of gas, oil and saw chains will fail. Firewood supply is a big job even with chainsaws and pickups, without them it will be almost impossible. No groceries, no transportation, no heat, no water - welcome to LATOC.