Practical Care for the ill by Fishsurfer

[pamela]

justy, I don't know about how much amoxil from the vet's although, once, several years ago, I got a bad lung infection.
I was pretty sick and couldn't go to the doc, no money. So, my little sis who is a nurse and had worked originally at a vet's stopped and got me some capsules from her vet friend and I took those. They worked fine and I got better fast.
she said it was the exact same medicine except it cost a dollar if you got it from the vet.

about the pt, I'm not entirely sure about how long, but, I would suspect that when the person is able to cough up a lot of material and can breath better, that would be a good sign.
Just saying.
maybe Hope@ZeroKelvin can answer it.

[stercrazy]

Don't know if this would help a person on their own, but I have a friend who has Cystic Fibrosis and he uses, not sure about this, but I think it's a drill with a buffer pad (for vibrating the lungs) of some sort to help loosen phlegm in the lungs and then cough it up. Was just thinking this might be of some help to someone who is alone and sick with this shit.

[Fishsurfer]

Well, as i wrote about this many months ago i knew at some point i would use them.  Which was the primary reason i wrote these down for everyone knowing everyone may need to use these ideas in case tshtf during the pandemic 2nd, 3rd waves etc...  Thats looking like a realistic option at this point.  Pallative care with little to no access to meds may indeed be our future with this current virus. 

Remember, its not going to be the fever, chills, and malaise that kills you.  Its your lungs that will most likely 99.9 % of the time fail on you.  Swine influenzas attack respiratory systems, its the nature illnesses pathology.  It likes lungs.  From the death reports im reading, that is indeed the case.  People are dying many days after they recover from the direct symptoms of the illness from complications. 

Some of the ICU's are now using proprietary ventilators and modified techniques to try and save people, it doesnt work all that well when you are fully infected with crap in your lungs.  They simply cant get the oxygen in the bloodstream and back out.  Its a mess. 

After i recovered from the direct symtoms of the illness, i started developing rales/crackles about a week after the flu symptoms disappeared.  I had already returned to work, felt fine, had no fevers.  I started getting a slight cough, which then progressed into a continuos non-productive cough.  I started monitoring my breath sounds looking for any signs of lung function issues.  I did find them, and they were very appareent after about 6 days.  I redeveloped a slight fever, related to the lung issue most likely, and i began doing hourly chest PT as mentioned in this thread originally.  I did it to myself, my daughter would help at home etc...

I started sleeping upright and have been for 2 weeks now.  Thats helped alleviate the problems of waking up in the morning with a lung full of crap thats built up overnight.

[wiccawench]

FISH YOU ARE BACK!





dammit..... sorry to hear you been sick....   

[Fishsurfer]

I did indeed sleep on my back for a few nights, dont do it.  Totally counter productive.  The object is to remove crap out of your lungs, not give them a resting period so the gunk can procreate and mess you up in the morning.  Its better to have the stuff rest on the lower lobes than slime all over every lobe of your lungs.  

Anyhow, i basically maintained a heavy regime of chest pounding, upright sleeping, honey/lemon teas, and angelica root (a natural expectorant).  Its slow progress, but its working.  The Angelica is especially useful.  Look online and get some, i made tea out of it. You can google about it and find some good info, thats how i found about the method.  Not to be used for pregnant people however.  

I think im nearing the end of things, crap is really coming up now.  Its mostly clear, and breathing is much less strained, rales are faint, and ive shown no more symptoms of hypoxia (low oxygen).  

Make no mistake though, these natural methods of palliative care are slow, demanding of your time and energy, and may get frustrating.  You just have to keep at it.  If you get the flu, go ahead and expect this is going to happen.  Start treating yourself as if you've already got respiratory issues, before they present as symptoms.  

The other issue i did have and should have expected was increased swelling of the throat from coughing.  Especially the epiglottis and upper airway.  To get around that i just modified my coughing technique and used half coughs to see if there was anything to hack up, and if so, then a full cough.  This is better than a full on cough all the time.  I'm sure there are some natural herbal antiinflamation treatments you could use to help as well.  

[Fishsurfer]

FISH YOU ARE BACK!





dammit..... sorry to hear you been sick....   

Yeah it sucks pretty much.  Much heavier than regular influenza, without modern meds people are going to really have to be careful with this one.  If we do indeed collapse this fall, clinics get overrun, meds run out, economy blows up....be ready to treat yourself at home like i have.  It does work.  Glad to be back around again, i missed all of you guys

[Tropicalgirl]

Welcome back FS!  Did you know there was a where is Fishy? thread?? http://www.doomers.us/forum2/index.php/topic,45168.45.html

So sorry to hear about the SF, please take care and thanks for the good advice.  I will stock up on your recommendations! 

[Fishsurfer]

Welcome back FS!  Did you know there was a where is Fishy? thread?? http://www.doomers.us/forum2/index.php/topic,45168.45.html

So sorry to hear about the SF, please take care and thanks for the good advice.  I will stock up on your recommendations! 

haha, thats funny.  Im of the belief that getting it now is a good thing.  Antigens are need to create antibodies.  Ive got the antigens, lets hope the antibodies follow and continue working as the flu mutates.  That goes for everyone. 

You got sick as well right?  I was most surprised at how quick the onset kicked in.  The initial symptoms of fever, chills, and weakness took over in a matter of hours between midnight and 3 a.m.  I woke up thinking holy crap the AC is like an icebox.  Then i realized, no its me.  I was on fire on the inside, cold like an eskimo on the outside.  Lots of people have been writing about good remedies.  Many i didnt know about.  Id use them all if you can.  If i had to prep for medical things right now, it would be for 3 issues.  1) your own personal disease histroy 2) trauma and emergency medicine related issues  3)  influenza/pandemic.  Nice to see ya again tropical:)

[Tropicalgirl]

I linked the wrong thread FS - http://www.doomers.us/forum2/index.php/topic,48820.0.html  Here is the one in Thunderdome where we were looking for you!  Sorry about that error.

Hey, I don't know if I really had SF, if so, it was way before it was on the 'radar'.  Whatever it was, kicked my butt, though, for weeks.  I hope we do get antibodies from these bouts from hell.

[rocketgirl]

Hey fishsurfer,
What is your profession?  It sounds like medical but I don't want to assume.  If it is medical I have a nagging question.  You mentioned earlier in this thread that antibiotics if you can't get to a doc would be better then nothing.  My question (Hope@zero too) is this.  I've been stockpiling antibiotics for several years now (Augmentin 875mg discard by 7/30/07---same thing use before 05/02/07------cephalexin 500mg use before 03/22/08 (infected toe)----amoxicillin 500mg capsule use before 10/16/06---------
cefinir 250/5  powder form dated 11/6/08--------the oldest one is amoxicillin powder form 11/18/04  All have been kept in the dark and at room temp.  I have never known exactly how long antibiotics are good for so that is my question.  I understand advise is to be taken as opinion only so no pressure. 

I've been able to stockpile because we travel ALOT and my kids have had many negative strep tests that would be sent off to culture but our docs would give a prescript just in case because we would be traveling to our remote cabin    Also, if I brought my kid to urgent care I too would complain of a sinus infection  and would get a prescript for that, fill it and save.  I've thought for a long time that antibiotics could be a life saver if one couldn't get medical care and now I'm glad I did.  I always write on the bottle what it is used for so I don't misuse because I really don't know alot about antibiotics.

Also, what is your opinion about expectorants?  It seemed very useful for my son but I'm not seeing that you've used it with your recent bout of lung infection.  Just curious.

Thanks!!

[rocketgirl]

never mind 



I found my own answer at the best website ever!   

http://emc.medicines.org.uk/document.aspx?documentId=1475

[justanouveaufarmer]

Glad you're back Fish.  I had a bad bout with it and now my husband is recovering from it.  Or at least I thought he was recovering.  Yesterday he started getting the lung rattling sound and was talking about going to the hospital.  The lung thing scares me the worst because it's so difficult to treat at home and it's the most dangerous. 

Thanks for posting.

[Fishsurfer]

Glad you're back Fish.  I had a bad bout with it and now my husband is recovering from it.  Or at least I thought he was recovering.  Yesterday he started getting the lung rattling sound and was talking about going to the hospital.  The lung thing scares me the worst because it's so difficult to treat at home and it's the most dangerous. 

Thanks for posting.

Indeed it is, pay attention to that stuff, listen to your lungs.  Not all of us have pulse oximetry at home, were going to have to rely on best judgements based on the facts we have available.  Hopefully if everyone can get a stethoscope (30 bucks for a useful one)...and keep a stash of herbs, meds, and so forth, along with knowing techniques for physically encouraging this stuff out...people will be better off.  With the scope, your going to begin hearing lung sounds earlier than before they become audible.  If you start treating early, your chances are much better. 

Heres what your lungs will sound likewith pneumonia (rales/crackles) 
http://www.wilkes.med.ucla.edu/lungintro.htm
Listen with earphones to reflect using a stethoscope.  Memorize and your lightbulb will go off when taking care of friends and family. 
I use a littmann brand......but these will get the job done.

http://www.amazon.com/Omron-Sprague-Rappaport-Stethoscope-Black/dp/B000FERLKI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1252632213&sr=8-1

[Fishsurfer]

Geez, i forgot to explain how to use a stehoscope.  Its really easy.  Dont be intimidated. 

Quick Anatomy and Physiology:

Lungs: 

you have 2....right and left...duh
your lungs are not symetrical
the right lung has 3 lobes (basically segments)
the left lung has 2 lobes

To listen in, remove all outside noise if possible. 
Use the large bell of the stethoscope for lungs (some have a smaller one and a large one)
The bell twists to change which size bell youare using.  Tap it with your ears on to figure out which one is in use.
Listen on both sides right about at armpit level.
Listen on both sides right about at the bottom of the rib cage.
You can then listen into each lobe if you wish.
Also listen on the back to cover both the front and back portion of the lung. 

Have them inhale and exhale deeply to make  the sounds more pronounced. Thats it basically. 

[Hope@ZeroKelvin]

@Fish:  you forgot to add that the patient should be nice and pink and warm and NOT coldish and blue.

Great advice.  You are very practical and can really explain this stuff better than me!