Civilization threatens my well being

[JurisDoctorOfDoom]

You know what Ponzu, it's always been bad. A few months ago Savinar recommended this book called Why We Fight. It was about the history of war going back millions of years from when we were chimps (if you believe that). The primitive hunter gatherer societies had the same problems, rampant violence and killing, overpopulation, environmental destruction. Come 2025 when oil exports are down to a trickle and the only meager domestic oil production is of the coal to liquids variety, we're going to be pretty nostalgic for this age of meaninglessness and greed. In that year we'll cure toothaches by pulling out the tooth. We'll labor in the fields from dawn to dusk. We'll live in constant fear of violence. We'll have old scourges back like cholera and typhoid and tuberculosis. In that day and age there will  probably be cures for cancer and heart disease but the lack of infrastructure will put them out of reach for just about everyone. Kind of like AIDS in Africa today. So go buy some beer and watch TV. This whole thing is gonna end soon enough.

I think you mean "Constant Battles." I believe "Why we fight" is a movie and I have not seen yet.

[Hydrocarbon Hiatus]

I am with you all the way man.

I sometimes feel like a prisioner in this messed up world.

But, the only way to free yourself is to do everything modern civilization does not.
I found out that learning about good survival skills such as organic gardening make you
feel really good about yourself.  You feel special that you know something that many people around you don't.

Maybe today they think we are all weird.  Quiet frankly I could care less.

The truth is, nature is not so kind to the ones who go against its ancient laws.

Stay sharp, learn good skills, be smart and live to survive.

[oliver.rochford]

Hmmm,

I agree with many of the points you  make mate, although I guess I don't often that worked up about it.

The most frustrating realization is that 99% of all misery is man-made.

If people just took one step back and though a second about how their actions influence others, the world'd be a far nicer place without alot of extra work or hassle for the people involved.

But alas, people are increasingly self-centered and ego-driven.

I don't know if it's ever been any better, we have a tendency to look back on glory days that probably never were.

ollie

[realitycheck]

Ponzu. 

I know exactly what you mean.

I recently got strength from lectures by Spencer Beebe of Ecotrust and Paul Hawken, major eco author,  at the Bioneers conference.

Among others they said to give up hope.   Give up hope.

At least hope anchored in political solutions. Or financial or scientific solutions.

Then find your strength.
You will make contingency plans.  You will find solutions for yourself and those you love.
You will do it because you are the only one who can for you and all your relations.
You will find some of the millions of people who sense what you know and synergize with them.

A usual I think nicole has invaluable advice.  Take time out/Chill and connect with nature.
If you are an info junkie like me, and I think you are, google the authors above.





P.S. If you are taking orders I would like a med, green T.
Or white and I'll dye it myself with vegetable dyes.


Afterthought: Maybe these authors aren't so appropriate for PO Doomers.  When I wrote this I was euphoric from being around so many eco positive people who know how bad it is and are actualy doing things about it.
The Hawkens talk isnt a PO talk...I dont want to lead anyone astray. 

[CantSeeTheBottom]

If I could do it all over again I think I'd make it a point to under achieve.
Above from Ponzu

I am an intelligent, highly educated 30 year old with a good paying job (which I hate, except that I get to do things like this at work because I don't care enough to actually do much work and they haven't taken away my internet, yet).  I have acquired much stuff over the years and even more debt which I am trying to get out of.  All to meet expectations, my own, parents, society etc.  I have friends who are uneducated, have low paying jobs, don't have much stuff.  I used to look down on them as not being my equal because they have not achieved any of what this society considers success.  Oh how I envy them now.  They have no obligations other than to live and have fun.  If I could do it over again I too might choose to underachieve. 

I feel the same way you do Ponzu, about life, this "civilization", etc.  I was depressed for a long time after my enlightenment.  I still get depressed often, but now I try to find happiness in small things.  A smile from my wife, the imminent birth of our first child ("god" help them), hard work to improve my farm, playing a videogame with my wife while smoking a doobie (when she's not pregnant, oh how jealous she is now).  It also helps me to get right royally ripped once in a while when it all gets to be too much.  Cigarettes used to help but my wife made me quit.  She's is probably questioning if she still loves me about now as I can be a mean sumbitch when I don't have my baccy.  Also I am a sponge for information so I try to learn as much as I can about everything.  A lot of times what I learn is depressing, but it is also enlightening and I hate not knowing.  I am also lucky that I have a very good lady who is totally PO aware and onboard, though I shield her from some of the worst scenarios.

Good Luck

[Michelle in Ga]

Try not to give TPTB a reason to arrest you and confiscate all that you have. Think

[Chip Haynes]

So the new qoute should be, "Serf for a lifetime today"?

[Nicholas]

PONZU!

You absolutely nailed it! you took the words right out of my mouth!

What you wrote is exactly how i feel, so when you have an answer please post it.

[suburban_junkscape]

Referring to a few posts back...yea, the book is "Constant Battles, Why We Fight". I totally recommend it, depressing as it is, it's a good dose of reality. As down as this stuff gets me, it's really  interesting. This really shakes up your worldview. I always thought that once we got rid of greed and capitalism and Exxon-Mobil, it would be all peace and love. Not even.

[Jay Dee]

Information overload is real. Life is hard no matter when and where you do it. Once you accept that it becomes easier, in my opinion. Sitting around wringing ones hands and discerning what a wreck everything is not my idea of sustainabilty. If you want to fix the things wrong in your world start with yourself...Once that is done you will be surprized at how much more acceptable life on life's terms will become. Its called reality - deal with it..or.....

[Chip Haynes]

The only thing worse than too much information is too little.

Which way would you rather tackle this problem?

[Nicholas]

Information overload is real. Life is hard no matter when and where you do it. Once you accept that it becomes easier, in my opinion. Sitting around wringing ones hands and discerning what a wreck everything is not my idea of sustainabilty. If you want to fix the things wrong in your world start with yourself...Once that is done you will be surprized at how much more acceptable life on life's terms will become. Its called reality - deal with it..or.....

I'd have to disagree with what your saying.

I believe life is relatively easy compared to any other time in the history of the human race, and I actually quite like the setup we're living in now.

The problem I have with this setup though, is that this isn't going to last forever like many people think it will, so this is why I find it hard to be happy with what we've got at this present time.

We could have had it so good, we could have planned for a far better future, but we've squandered this one shot affair for the biggest party the human race has ever seen, and the hangover isn't going to be nice.

I find it hard to enjoy this wonderful lifestyle we live in at the moment as I now know the future our civilizations face, and if only the rest of the human race knew the energy predicament we're in, maybe we could fix it and do something about it.

Life is ridiculously easy at the moment, but it’s about to get ridiculously hard.

[OldHorseman]

if only the rest of the human race knew the energy predicament we're in, maybe we could fix it and do something about it.

Life is ridiculously easy at the moment, but it’s about to get ridiculously hard.

   Nevermind what Civilization or "we" could do to fix things. Concentrate on what you can do to employ the bounty of the current era to make things somewhat less hard in LATOC.

   We'll all go nuts and accomplish nothing if each of us tries to take responsibility for the whole human race.

[carbondragon]

We just started to fly direct to New York. 14hour flight burning 16000pds of fuel per hour with only  (drumroll)
35 passengers. I got home and puked... Even my job is draggin me down. It does not help my global warming nightmare either.  (27 passenger on the way back in case anyone wonder...)

[Deb]

Ponzu said
"Just what the hell am I supposed to do, live out the rest of my life in utter futility?  What the hell is the point in doing anything anymore?  I don't even know why I spent the effort to write all this.  I keep trying to find my own meaning, create my own definition of what it means to live, but its never there."

Wow, religous implications jump off the page, I will state the obvious and first off suggest that you reconnect with your Higher Power and given it its props. In other words, if Catholic, go back to Mass and say your prayers, fast on Fridays and keep your religion. If Baptist, or some other Protestant, sing a hymn, preach a sermon, do unto others as you would have them do unto you,  and read the Bible...if Buddhist, sit down and meditate an hour a day and practice compassion and lovingkindness....etc. etc. 

Take a leaf from Gandhi's book and own the fact thast utter fultility is all we have and so from this positon of powerlessness and humility we begin. What is the point of doing anything? Love and family, doing what's right and doing what's life-giving. Find your community of support and enter into a life of service to others. In so doing, all you seek will be given to you. Follow teh great suggestions gien in this forum, and read up. And don't forget to play with the dog, kiss the kids, hug the spouse and take care of mother earth (garden and plant trees)

Namaste,

Deb