latoc young people's caucus (introduce yourself 15-25ish)

[Zer0]

Haha, I dig the second part of that statement.

But what scenario's, pray tell, do you see reducing the effects of peak oil?
[/quote]


I'll keep things brief but suffice it to say current society is based on a glut of accessible and cheap energy. We've never had to squeeze efficiency. But the efficiencies that exist are enormous.

If Americans were to switch to a diet with 25% less meat, it would be the equivalent to the entire consumer population buying a Prius. I'm a vegetarian myself and my diet gives me DOUBLE the RDA for protein.

During a Senate presentation, there was an anecdotal remark made by a presenter that a do-it-yourselfer was building homes for 5% increased price with 50% - 60% increased efficiency. (reduced electricity/gas usage, less coal, more for liquids technology)

If every one of 110 million American households bought just flourescent bulb, took it home, and screwed it in the place of an ordinary 60-watt bulb, the energy saved would be enough to power a city of 1.5 million people. One bulb swapped out, enough electricity saved to power all the homes in Delaware and Rhode Island. (even more coal available for liquids; multiply this savings 50 - 100 fold for the number of sockets in a typical home)

In a similar vein, hyper-milers modify their vehicles. A man spotlighted on CNET bought $500 dollars worth of material and succeeded in doubling the mileage of his CRX from 30 mpg to 60 mpg.

Some farmers have reported that yields for organic agriculture have been equal to industrial farming. This of course translates into labor intensive work but the main point of a mass die off is that many on these forums think we cannot support the current population.

Victory gardens contributed 30% - 40% of US food supply during the World War era; there is no reason to believe that this can't happen again when price of oil drive ups food price and people plant gardens out of necessity.

Technologies coming onstream within the next 10 years include CAT vehicles and refuse derived methane.

All of the savings in oil consumption can go towards necessities such as industrial inputs for agriculture. Reduced electricity usage would spare massive amounts of coal for CTL technologies.

Economic effects can be mitigated by another New Deal. Massive spending on public transit infrastructure. Vancouver has metro population of 2.4 million, with 1.4 million registered vehicles. Contrasted to Hong Kong with 7 million people, and 500 000 vehicles. Simply put, HK's transit system puts Vancouver to shame. Reduced per capita usage of personal vehicles would make an enormous impact against oil consumption.

Some states and provinces are taking peak seriously. Portland established a task force for the issue 2 years ago. Vancouver is instituting a tax on gas per liter. A quick look on Google Trends reveals that in the heart of oil country in Texas, Austin ranks #3 in terms of search volume for peak oil. Gradually, the mainstream are waking up to this.

To put an end to it, a great many people on these forums seem to WANT an end to civilization. They seem to want a massive die off and instead of contributing to potential solutions, they invest their energy to a purely individualistic drive. If I had the visibility and money to make it happen, I would go on a massive education campaign. 

[JurisDoctorOfDoom]

If I had the visibility and money to make it happen, I would go on a massive education campaign. 

Jimmy Carter, the leader of the free world at one point, tried exactly that and the only thing that happened was he got tossed out on his ass.

[JurisDoctorOfDoom]

Victory gardens contributed 30% - 40% of US food supply during the World War era; there is no reason to believe that this can't happen again when price of oil drive ups food price and people plant gardens out of necessity.

 

Actually, it was only 30-40% of vegetables - not calories - and this was only in some cities.

[cleiserle]

zer0:
you've got some good points there. I agree that individuals should have made these changes years ago, but people are basically lazy. I have built 2 of my own houses and incorporated the most energy-effecient products we could afford. I did it because I was "cheap", and knew the price of electricity was only going up. It was a win/win for everybody.  Education won't work on the masses, they don't want to hear the truth.

I certainly don't want "The End", but I think at this point it is inevitable, we've crossed the point of turning back. In the mean time I have prepared my doomstead as energy-effecient as possible, grow/plan on growing almost all of my own food, and enjoy the fruits of my labor. Educating 300 million people, just in the US, would be quite the daunting task, and government mandates and taxes...well I think you know how that would end up!

[freedom]

... find myself having a hard time staying sane around thousands of 18-25 year olds who believe whole heartedly that the current mirage of a world with cars, fast food and walmarts is infallible and even desirable.

Me, too. What helps me to stay focussed and thinking straight and to 'keep on keeping on' is LATOC. I'm a very senior/seasoned lady and my family and friends are clueless. LATOC is a lifesaver. Stay with it, Bags, and good luck with the Caucus and your attempt to bring young people together ...

[JustCHris]

I'm 25, just got out of college last semester and starting out on the career of internet tech (hey, it can be worse. I could've been buying internet stocks in 1999). As it stands right now, I am not yet financially ready to buy a lot of land and country home to brag about to fellow PO-ers. I am satisfied living in a city with a sizeable amount of transportation so we are a bit more energy-conscious than the suburban crowd. A densely populated city still makes more economical sense than sprawling suburbs that make people feel naked without a car. New Urbanism for the win.

I'm 20. Live in Vancouver. Have been looking at peak oil for about a year now; other global issues for several.

I'm not discounting the difficulties that lie ahead but this issue attracts excessively misanthropic types. I am by no means a technotopian but nor am I a pessimist. I'm a realist, I can think of a few scenarios where the effects of peak will be significantly reduced. I have a feeling some of the members on this board are letting their hate of humans cloud appraisal of the issue.

I hear you on that. One of the few things I don't like about communities like these is that it has a misanthropic outlook toward life. If I chose that route it would be like having a "high horse" attitude which would make me feel disdainful and arrogant.

Also, I believe it's still too early to make predictions about the future unless you're talking in gross generalities and all the obvious stuff we really know. The truth is no one really knows how it's all going to come down, or in what order. Just as no one can understand the whole intricate pipeline of modern society that is fueled by oil, no one can say exactly how it will break apart, or to what extent each area of society will suffer.

The only thing I will 100% agree upon is that everything will get more expensive, and I'm leaving it at that for now.

[JurisDoctorOfDoom]

I hear you on that. One of the few things I don't like about communities like these is that it has a misanthropic outlook toward life. If I chose that route it would be like having a "high horse" attitude which would make me feel disdainful and arrogant.

I think you're projecting - and, to be quite frank, completely mischaracterizing the typical forum member - here.  I'd say 9/10 here are to one degree or another sick of the "culture of happy motoring" but very few, if any, have a high horse attitude or fundamentally don't like other people. It's the people you see every day riding around in their Ford F-150 Burkhas of Steel and Chevy Bloatmobiles - the ones who would gladly cheer George Bush and Dick Cheney drinking the blood of Iraq children from goblets on live tv if gas was back at $1.50 - who have the high horse attitude, who are disdainful towards others.

[JurisDoctorOfDoom]

The only thing I will 100% agree upon is that everything will get more expensive, and I'm leaving it at that for now.

Well your ability to predict the future - or, more accurately - your ability to observe present reality leaves a lot to be desired. Everything is not getting more expensive. Housing prices, for instance, have dropped considerably in the last year. This has been blasted all over both the mainstream media and the alternative press (including the LATOC site and forum) so it would be pretty hard to miss.

Flat screen tvs and other useless crap have, in many cases, also come down since the last year. Things that count like food, medicine, fuel, have all continued to go up.

[islandgirl]

I'm a 26 yr old female living in a costal area US area.

I've been lurking for awhile and finally signed up.  I guess I've been reading several survivalist forums and was hesistant to sign up for one more.  But it's great here, and I'm finding a lot of good info. and interesting reading.

What keeps me up at night is that while it's good that a lot of middle aged people are prepping who seems to have rural land and doomsteads, where should a young person without land head to?

Should we just drive to the mountains?  Won't the farmers and rural folks shoot us?  I've actually read about this on other forums.  The shooting all trespassers part.  I've been telling my friends and parents that in a coastal city most of our food is being shipped here along with all the other goods.  And fishing doesn't work for food because I've tried fishing at the beach or the pier...I'd be lucky to catch anything and it's not dependable unless you have a boat. 

Assuming you don't have any relatives with land in the mountains, or friends with land out of the city...  Where would you go if TSHTF? 

[JurisDoctorOfDoom]

Island Girl,

What sort of "island" are we talking here? If it's the one I suspect, you've come to the right board:

http://www.peakoilstore.com/forum/index.php/topic,11434.0.html
http://www.peakoilstore.com/forum/index.php/topic,11334.msg137395.html#msg137395

Forum Member "Salty Puppy" lives on the Big Island and is constructing a doomstead with her husband. Rbrgs is in the area too. As do some lurkers.

[bevans]

-Bags McGee

Loved the poem you wrote.
Very well written!!

I am in the same boat.
20 and finding that teaching myself through books is the best way to go. I am also in school and having a hard time concentrating on listening to someone who thinks nothing of what is really going to matter in a short amount of time.

Mainly I have realized that I can not convince the people around me to open their eyes.
The only thing i can do is hopefully get the preparations needed and the right types of people needed to unite together in a big city and try to pull through.

This will be an interesting time for sure.
Very hard.
But very interesting.

I finally think we are getting the test of all time.
"survival of the fittest and quickest"


Lets just hope we are preparing in time.

[Sammi]

I am also in school and having a hard time concentrating on listening to someone who thinks nothing of what is really going to matter in a short amount of time.

I know the feeling. That's why I'm on here during Econ class. The "infinite growth" paradigm combined with a "technology and the market will save us from peak oil" that he said in one of his lectures makes me wish I hadn't taken the class. Ironically, I only took that class because of LATOC, because I wanted to know what the investment people were talking about.

[islandgirl]

Island Girl,

What sort of "island" are we talking here? If it's the one I suspect, you've come to the right board:

http://www.peakoilstore.com/forum/index.php/topic,11434.0.html
http://www.peakoilstore.com/forum/index.php/topic,11334.msg137395.html#msg137395

Forum Member "Salty Puppy" lives on the Big Island and is constructing a doomstead with her husband. Rbrgs is in the area too. As do some lurkers.

I'm on Oahu.  :-(

[JustCHris]

The only thing I will 100% agree upon is that everything will get more expensive, and I'm leaving it at that for now.

Well your ability to predict the future - or, more accurately - your ability to observe present reality leaves a lot to be desired. Everything isnot getting more expensive. Housing prices, for instance, have dropped considerably in the last year. This has been blasted all over both the mainstream media and the alternative press (including the LATOC site and forum) so it would be pretty hard to miss.

Flat screen tvs and other useless crap have, in many cases, also come down since the last year. Things that count like food, medicine, fuel, have all continued to go up.

Thanks for the corrections, and I'm glad that you didn't use tact to sugar it up.

I did not mean to say everything (although I actually used the word). Looks like I came across a semantics brain fart. I agree that housing is getting cheaper for the time being. But by "everything" I mean all the modern luxuries that are dependent on our cheap energy, how it will all be in the future. We are still seeing electronics and plastics getting cheaper, but I know you know that this can't continue on in the long run. And that's what I was just saying in my single statement.

I think you're projecting - and, to be quite frank, completely mischaracterizing the typical forum member - here.  I'd say 9/10 here are to one degree or another sick of the "culture of happy motoring" but very few, if any, have a high horse attitude or fundamentally don't like other people. It's the people you see every day riding around in their Ford F-150 Burkhas of Steel and Chevy Bloatmobiles - the ones who would gladly cheer George Bush and Dick Cheney drinking the blood of Iraq children from goblets on live tv if gas was back at $1.50 - who have the high horse attitude, who are disdainful towards others.

I guess I'm still a young grasshopper learning the ways of these forums. There's gotta be something here I can do right!

My response to that is, let them do what they want. If they're not gonna know any better, and they're not gonna change, I don't see the point in giving more negative attention to these people. We don't need them for our survival, right? "Misanthropic" might be taking it too far then. What is the correct term to dislike the culture you're in, rather than the whole human nature?

[JurisDoctorOfDoom]

Island Girl,

What sort of "island" are we talking here? If it's the one I suspect, you've come to the right board:

http://www.peakoilstore.com/forum/index.php/topic,11434.0.html
http://www.peakoilstore.com/forum/index.php/topic,11334.msg137395.html#msg137395

Forum Member "Salty Puppy" lives on the Big Island and is constructing a doomstead with her husband. Rbrgs is in the area too. As do some lurkers.

I'm on Oahu.  :-(

Would a relocation to BI be possible?  Heck, in the Puna area half the people are living as though society collapsed 20 years ago.